chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 KipperdoodleI think we just see things differently, could be generational I suppose.I want to disagree with your assertion without being disagreeable. It seems that you have focused on Christmas as representative that what you hold near and dear is under attack as you move from retailers not saying Merry Christmas to a Muslim women not wanting to show her face for a passport (actually a citizenship swearing in but close enough).Societies evolve. The traditions will be kept alive by the people practicing them. I have yet to see where a minority or "newby" group as you so ineloquently put it have been the ones who are protesting Christmas activities. IMO it has been right minded but poorlky executed administrators who have tried to be inclusive of the changing demographics of theior school.Sure it may be a bit silly to call it a holiday paegent instead of a Christmas concert but if David, Sanjay, or Burwinder can then feel like they are part of the tradition as well instead of being relegated out because they don't understand or believe in Christ then what is exactly the harm? Christmas tradition still ives on, kids are still allowed to paint trees in class, nothing is under attack.A few years ago I went to my daughter's holiday paegent where Christmas songs were being sung by the kids. I was very uminpressed that Silent Night was being performed. I was raised in Canada (5th generation here)and am not religous and I really did not appreciate that my child was singing "Christ the Savior is born". This had no place in a public school (wasn't the only religous Christmas song either)Canada is an inclusive country and I agree that those who immigrate here should be willing to assimilate into our broad accepting way of thinking rather than clinging to the more abhorrent traditions of the country they have emigrated from, to this extent I think Australia has the right idea.This being said if customs evolve over time I am not going to stand on my front porch yelling "get off my lawn!!!!!!!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 A few years ago I went to my daughter's holiday paegent where Christmas songs were being sung by the kids. I was very uminpressed that Silent Night was being performed. I was raised in Canada (5th generation here)and am not religous and I really did not appreciate that my child was singing "Christ the Savior is born". This had no place in a public school (wasn't the only religous Christmas song either)Chocky...Well it may come as a surprise that I am not very religious either.....I mean, really.........the first time I went to church, they threw water on me...........the second time I went I got this band of gold on my finger and I can't get it off...........the next time I go, apparently I am going to be set on fire !!!Based on what I have quoted you as posting, (see above), one could say that you don't believe in religion so would it be safe to say that you think it is all a fantasy ??? To follow through, you feel that this religious fantasy should not be voiced, in song or otherwise, in a public school....would that be a truism..... as far as your personal feelings go??If you are still riding on my train of thought, then it follows that many other non-religious "holiday season" songs should not be sung in school as they too are all composed of fantasy....I mean really...reindeer that can fly, one has a nose so red he can be used as a GPS.....a snowman that comes alive ...where will this buffoonery end????Anyhow Chock-de-rock.......Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and yes...we'll be agreeable in our disagreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Chocky...Well it may come as a surprise that I am not very religious either.....I mean, really.........the first time I went to church, they threw water on me...........the second time I went I got this band of gold on my finger and I can't get it off...........the next time I go, apparently I am going to be set on fire !!!Based on what I have quoted you as posting, (see above), one could say that you don't believe in religion so would it be safe to say that you think it is all a fantasy ??? To follow through, you feel that this religious fantasy should not be voiced, in song or otherwise, in a public school....would that be a truism..... as far as your personal feelings go??If you are still riding on my train of thought, then it follows that many other non-religious "holiday season" songs should not be sung in school as they too are all composed of fantasy....I mean really...reindeer that can fly, one has a nose so red he can be used as a GPS.....a snowman that comes alive ...where will this buffoonery end????Anyhow Chock-de-rock.......Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and yes...we'll be agreeable in our disagreement.I would not say I am without faith, just not so sure if Buddha, Allah, Vishnu or Jesus is the one who is right As far as a non religous holiday songs, no problems with them, after all Mother Goose is a fable as well and last time I checked grinches were still make believe.Anyhow in the spirit of the season, a spirit that I wish was more prevelant the rest of the year, have a very Christmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 A few years ago I went to my daughter's holiday paegent where Christmas songs were being sung by the kids. I was very uminpressed that Silent Night was being performed. I was raised in Canada (5th generation here)and am not religous and I really did not appreciate that my child was singing "Christ the Savior is born". This had no place in a public school (wasn't the only religous Christmas song either)Yeah, right. Can you verify that that really happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Why does a song containing the phrase, "Christ the Saviour is born", elicit such a negative guttural response from a parent, but the singing of or listening to any number of disgusting modern musical pieces by one’s kid doesn’t provoke the same retort?For the record; I don’t practice organized religion, but ‘Silent Night’ is a beautiful classical work of art and I appreciate it accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yeah, right. Can you verify that that really happened?Well I was there. If you are trying to call out some sort of equivalency based on my asking you who said saying Merry Christmas was offensive, be my guest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Why does a song containing the phrase, "Christ the Saviour is born", elicit such a negative guttural response from a parent, but the singing of or listening to any number of disgusting modern musical pieces by one’s kid doesn’t provoke the same retort?For the record; I don’t practice organized religion, but ‘Silent Night’ is a beautiful classical work of art and I appreciate it accordingly.I never said it was not a beautiful song. Words have meaning. It evokes a response because Christ is not my saviour and foisting those words on kids at a public school is wrong.I am assuming that if there was a beautiful song featuring the term "Allah Akbar" you and malcolm would have no problem with a class in a public school singing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkavafian Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 II am assuming that if there was a beautiful song featuring the term "Allah Akbar" you and malcolm would have no problem with a class in a public school singing it?Not if the public school is in the Middle East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Not if the public school is in the Middle East.Apples and Oranges, talking about Canada, Northwest Calgary to be exact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 But JK's response is most appropriate, is it not? Canada is a country that was founded, like it or not, on the Judeo /Christian 'value system'. I doubt any of this ‘stuff’ would be at issue today here in Canada had it not been for the likes of one Pierre Trudeau and his turning our country into a multi-cultural abyss.As I’ve said; I’m not a practicing religious type, never really have been and I remain fairly critical of all organized religion, but I do admit to liking the ‘spirit’ ‘everyone’ seemed to share during the period in and around Christmas. That spirit is long gone today and has instead been replaced by a ‘mood’ that favours some other agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 If you want to get technical about it Canada was founded on the principles of capitalism as a Northwest passage was being sought to make trade easier. Further development was spurred on by the Hudson Bay Company and governments in Eurpope eager to colonize lands for their own wealth.So no, JK's resonse is not appropriate to the discussion. We do not live in the Middle East and I could give a fiddler's fart how they choose to govern themselves. Personally I love the Christmas spirit, wish people had it year round. What "mood" that flavors another agenda are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Hola, again, Chocky.....At times, do you not feel that the whole world is a tuxedo and you're a pair of brown shoes?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Hola, again, Chocky.....At times, do you not feel that the whole world is a tuxedo and you're a pair of brown shoes??Ha, not at all. Personally I don't feel the make up of the board is reflective of society at all. It skews very old, male and white here, which truth be told, I am two of those things and rapidly approaching the third (depending who you ask I am already there!)On this issue I think some people seek to find a version of "CHRISTMAS BEING UNDER ATTACK" as it is a reflexive position based on preconceived notions. I simply do not agree and the empirical evidence supports my view. This whole thread started when someone said they would turn down an invite if it was a "holiday party" which seems very unneighborly and very unchristian.So in answer to your question Kipperoni I have no problem with brown shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 If you are trying to call out some sort of equivalency based on my asking you who said saying Merry Christmas was offensive, be my guest.CP FA, where specifically have you been told that it is offensive to wish someone a Merry Christmas or is this just more blather from the old get off my lawn crowd? Oh, is this you asking a question? Because it seems more like you're insinuating that I've fabricated something, and implying that I'm intolerant.You seem to think that you have more credibility here than other posters. You don't. The part about being 5th generation was a nice touch though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Well I was there. If you are trying to call out some sort of equivalency based on my asking you who said saying Merry Christmas was offensive, be my guest.And my wife was there when the comments were made to her. Are you suggesting my wife is full of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 ChocI really can’t encapsulate the ‘spirit’ of Christmas past; it was simply a period during which, our view on faith wasn’t of any particular concern to anyone; everyone just seemed to slow down, smell the baking and it all felt pretty damn good? I think the ‘Christmas season’, including New Year’s Eve, gave the people an opportunity to take a break from reality and run with the reindeer, which has just got to be good for the collective karma?The ‘mood’ of today is evidenced by the very subject matter of this thread. As the ‘Holiday Season’ of the present time approaches, I now look forward to the great annual and often heated Canadian debate on political correctness. We’re years into an experiment in political correctness, which is forcing a piece of our culture and the ‘spirit’ that went with it into a closet? The spirit was replaced with ‘mood’, a force that clearly produces little more than a seasonal collective negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Oh, is this you asking a question? Because it seems more like you're insinuating that I've fabricated something, and implying that I'm intolerant.You seem to think that you have more credibility here than other posters. You don't. The part about being 5th generation was a nice touch though.Well, yes it is me asking a question because you made this statement:Being wished "Happy Holidays" is not the issue. Being told that to wish someone "Merry Christmas" is offensive is a huge issue. I asked if this actually happened to you.I don't think I have more credibility but I have backed up what I have said. The 5th generation was in response to Kiperoni who mentioned something to the effect that if I was a "newby" I could return from the hell hole that I came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 And my wife was there when the comments were made to her. Are you suggesting my wife is full of it?Not at all and if you look at who was being responded to in the post you will see it is not directed at you. That being said I wonder about your recollection of of anything if you have the inability to find a Christmas card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 ChocI really can’t encapsulate the ‘spirit’ of Christmas past; it was simply a period during which, our view on faith wasn’t of any particular concern to anyone; everyone just seemed to slow down, smell the baking and it all felt pretty damn good? I think the ‘Christmas season’, including New Year’s Eve, gave the people an opportunity to take a break from reality and run with the reindeer, which has just got to be good for the collective karma?The ‘mood’ of today is evidenced by the very subject matter of this thread. As the ‘Holiday Season’ of the present time approaches, I now look forward to the great annual and often heated Canadian debate on political correctness. We’re years into an experiment in political correctness, which is forcing a piece of our culture and the ‘spirit’ that went with it into a closet? The spirit was replaced with ‘mood’, a force that clearly produces little more than a seasonal collective negativity.Maybe you should do some work to focus on that Christmas spirit instead of looking for boogey men of political coorectness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 It's sad, but true; I don't look for them; they just find me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 It's sad, but true; I don't look for them; they just find me?Fair enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Maybe you should do some work to focus on that Christmas spirit instead of looking for boogey men of political coorectness?Exactly. A lot of people have slipped into holiday mode, or call it whatever you want. If you don't work for a courier company, things are slowing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I made it about halfway thru the video Malcolm posted. Anyone who only has the ability to see everything as a liberal vs conservative arguement does not have the mental capacity to be taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFox Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Great version of Silent Night with Jackie Evancho & Katherine Jenkins...Rockefeller Center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I stopped watching at "us normal people" Interesting quote if you don't celebrate Christmas you are not Normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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