Azure Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 but Azure is a liitle confused if he believes judgement of your deeds will gets you past the gates! Why? Will I fair no better than you because I refuse to spend an hour every Sunday listening to someone tell me how horrible I am? While that someone probably is comitting a sin I haven't even thought of? Revalations starts with a warning to the "Churches". Think about that handyman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I have bought my ticket to the next level whatever it may be. I was baptised and comfirmed in the United Church. Between my parents guidence and 14 years of Sunday school and church services, I knew what was right and wrong. I knew attending church services weren't going to make me a better person. The world is the House of God and I can speak to him anytime not just on Sundays in a church. As long as I follow or try to follow the Ten Commandments , I know I'll be in a great place after I die. Newgirl: You're much too nice of a person and it's still too close to Christmas for me to comment on this so I'll just say that I'm glad you've got it figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Why? Will I fair no better than you because I refuse to spend an hour every Sunday listening to someone tell me how horrible I am? While that someone probably is comitting a sin I haven't even thought of? Revalations starts with a warning to the "Churches". Think about that handyman. Selective reading I believe. So you don't go to Church because you picked the wrong Church and the guy upfront may be a sinner? We're all sinners buddy and Church is like post-grad education...not everyone enjoys it all the time but it is good for you! Church is just one avenue of learning more about God. Also, it is not about you or I. Nor is it about good deeds or generally how good of a person you are. It is not about going to Church or how many Bibles you own. It is all about your belief in God and if you accept him as your personal saviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AME Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I've always maintained that organized religion is man's corruption of faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I've always maintained that organized religion is man's corruption of faith So what is faith without a religious path to follow? I've always maintained it is wiser to believe in God and follow his teachings with the possibility of learning in death I was wrong then not believing in God or his teachings and being wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AME Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 So what is faith without a religious path to follow? I've always maintained it is wiser to believe in God and follow his teachings with the possibility of learning in death I was wrong then not believing in God or his teachings and being wrong. I guess the question is which God is the right one?? For me I believe it's better to have faith that there is a higher being and live my life the best I possibly can, then run the risk that when I get there I discover his/her name is actually Allah, Budda, Ra, Isis or Shakti??? Faith is a very personal thing, and I've always tried to accept that no one is wrong in how they worship their chosen deity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airband Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 So what is faith without a religious path to follow? A pleasant journey without the clutter of the kool-aid stands. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 A pleasant journey without the clutter of the kool-aid stands. . Bingo !!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I guess the question is which God is the right one?? For me I believe it's better to have faith that there is a higher being and live my life the best I possibly can, then run the risk that when I get there I discover his/her name is actually Allah, Budda, Ra, Isis or Shakti??? Faith is a very personal thing, and I've always tried to accept that no one is wrong in how they worship their chosen deity. The right God for you is where "faith" comes into it! You are entitled to your own opinion and of course "faith" but...it sounds like your "faith" is the belief of no one God and therefore I question your "faith" in God and prefer to call it "D. All of the above"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 A pleasant journey without the clutter of the kool-aid stands. . You and the "Bingo Kid" could have a short journey! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AME Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 You are entitled to your own opinion and of course "faith" but...it sounds like your "faith" is the belief of no one God and therefore I question your "faith" in God and prefer to call it "D. All of the above"! This is why I rarely enter into any debates on religion, first you say that I'm entitled to my opinion, then you question my faith??? "We despise all reverences and all the objects of reverence which are outside the pale of our own list of sacred things. And yet, with strange inconsistency, we are shocked when other people despise and defile the things which are holy to us." - Following the Equator, Mark Twain http://www.twainquotes.com/Religion.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 This is why I rarely enter into any debates on religion, first you say that I'm entitled to my opinion, then you question my faith??? I'm not trying to insult you and if you find my statement offensive, I am trully sorry. I'm just trying to discuss this in a reasonable fashion. I am curious how you have faith in something you have not identified? You can be of any religion you want or even a non-believer of any God but to say you have "faith" and then not identify your God is very puzzling to me. Unless of course you do believe in a God but elect not to identify him here which is of course your right! Lastly, a discussion in God and or faith does not have to be terrible if you respect the opinion of others. I respect your decision concerning your "faith", I just asked you to explain why you believe what you have is "faith". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 If you respect his opinion then why do you need him to clarify his position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 If you respect his opinion then why do you need him to clarify his position? I don't "need" him to do anything! This is a public forum where people discuss "things". If he doesn't want to discuss it then that is fine but people should not throw a bone and then walk away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AME Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I am curious how you have faith in something you have not identified? Do I believe in a higher being? Yes! Do I know who/what that is? No! My life experience has lead me to doubt man's ability to accurately and without bias report/interpret/translate anything, and as such I have trouble accepting the current dogma of organized religion, but I have been fortunate enough to observe some of the many natural wonders of this world and numerous random acts of human kindness/generosity as well as a few events whose favorable outcome can best be described as miraculous, which leads me believe in something how's that for a non-commital answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Do I believe in a higher being? Yes! Do I know who/what that is? No! My life experience has lead me to doubt man's ability to accurately and without bias report/interpret/translate anything, and as such I have trouble accepting the current dogma of organized religion, but I have been fortunate enough to observe some of the many natural wonders of this world and numerous random acts of human kindness/generosity as well as a few events whose favorable outcome can best be described as miraculous, which leads me believe in something how's that for a non-commital answer Good enough...thanks for the response! I understand your doubt and would only comment by saying the current dogma of organised religion is often a percieved perception and not one based on fact or of norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I am curious how you have faith in something you have not identified? Ah...umm..letsee.. A C119 can not fly, (on paper), with only one engine operating but I had faith that someone wiser than me said it could...and so it did. Never did identify why it did... Oh hey...speaking of Lift/Drag and other Aerodynamic Vectors.......I have never actually seen any of those things, but I have faith about that which I have not identified. Yeh.. I know...s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g the envelope of discussion but what would you expect from the Bingo kid...... and finally...who gives a rats rosey red asterbar about who believes what, with respect to religion. One has to be content with one's inner self and if one is satisfied with their own personal beliefs...is that not enough?? The problem with death is that no one can come back and prove one belief or the other....and that is the sticking point.....so the big question will never be resolved. I am outta here...don't want to lose my "friend". PS...If Jesus was a Jew, how come he has a Mexican name?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 OK, just for the fun of it...i'll bite! Ah...umm..letsee.. A C119 can not fly, (on paper), with only one engine operating but I had faith that someone wiser than me said it could...and so it did. Never did identify why it did... You identified that a person with greater experience was capable of doing something with the Boxcar you thought was not possible. That is wisdom in your choices not faith. It was also a lack of knowledge on your part as flying with one-engine out is a requirement of any certified multi-engine fixed-wing. Oh hey...speaking of Lift/Drag and other Aerodynamic Vectors.......I have never actually seen any of those things, but I have faith about that which I have not identified. Oh but you have correctly named and identified it. You have a career based on the understanding and acceptance of aerodynamics. Nope, not faith here either! Yeh.. I know...s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g the envelope of discussion but what would you expect from the Bingo kid...... No, you met expectations. and finally...who gives a rosey red rats asterbar about who believes what, with respect to religion. One has to be content with one's inner self and if one is satisfied with their own personal beliefs...is that not enough?? Many people do. This is just another topic of discussion. You begin many threads on subjects I couldn't give a rats ass about so I just remain silent and allow others to discuss them at will. Are you suggesting this topic should not be discussed here? The problem with death is that no one can come back and prove one belief or the other....and that is the sticking point.....so the big question will never be resolved. The question most definitely gets resolved just not communicated to the living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Are you suggesting this topic should not be discussed here? Not at all.....freedom of speech and all that, and it is good to see different opinions but as for me...just me now...OK??? and "perhaps" others there is no conclusion and this thread will die with diverse opinions but no definitive conclusions which is OK..... but the topic is rather abstract for my liking,(another of my opinions). Just remember that he who must die, must die in the dark even though he sells candles and as Voltaire said.......if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.. have a nice night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 have a nice night You too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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