Guest Dash eight Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Got the Official word from Zip by email this morning. They are NOT pulling out of London they are just changing the flight schedules with service to winnipeg now instead of direct Calgary. More info to come.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lancaster Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Once again Air Canada appears to be very confused as to where, when and how often to operate routes. If in fact, they are now not pulling out, it sends a strong message that perhaps RM is no longer at the controls of the sinking boat. Decisions appear to be lacking in sensabilities and sporadic at best. Once again, nothing original from the air carrier......just following the others again and continuing on unprofitable routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 lancaster get your gyro straight Zip can offer the London passenger more point to point service out of Winnipeg to Westren Canada like Saskatoon,Edmonton,Vancouver,and one stop to Calgary, and a lot more options out of Winnipeg with out going thourgh Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simcoe Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 ...except WJ already does YXU-YWG with connections west and YXU-YYC daily in 737 NG's. I'd say it's a case of Three Blind Mice, but I can't think of who the other two blind mice are after Uncle Milty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Simcoe get your facts right. Westjet flys dircet to Calgary on Mon,Tue,Thur,Sat,Sun, and has also droped the Saturday flight to Winnipeg. Westjet droped three flights outbound per week and two inbound flights per week. That is a reduction of five flights per week, so I would say zip is making a wise move in not pulling service out but giving more choice to it's passengers by going to Winnipeg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simcoe Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Hey Zippy, Picking Nov 9 to 15 off their website.... WS operates YWG-YXU daily, and YXU-YWG 6x a week (ex Saturday). YXU-YYC-YXU operates 5x weekly. Zippy got soundly spanked in YXU but because it's Smitty's supposed hometown, the ego doesn't allow the white flag to be fully raised. Wait a minute. Smitty doesn't run Zippy, Milty runs Zippy. Flunky Smitty? I crack me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Hey Simcoe,that's what I said in my post Westjet last month had daily flights to Calgary and Winnipeg but pulled back on the frequency because Zip was giving Westjet a run for there money and the Westjet loads we're down. MR Smith say's up your kilt MR Klive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Westjet's loads are around 80%, so wouldn't say Westjet is suffering. Westjet also pulled back their frequency to adjust for SEASONAL demand. Get your facts straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Where do you get your facts from a cracker jack box ? I've seen the loads in London and if you think on average 70 passengers is 80% you have a math problem or Westjet is flying smaller than 140 seats, I think you should get your numbers right befour you post bogus numbers CanadaEH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjaer Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Don't mess with the wiz...He never posts anything misleading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simcoe Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 A run for the money? Is AC in any position to be operating a 4 hour flight with load factors under 40% in September according to YXU sources? You've put your finger on the fundamental problem at Air Canada. They are more concerned about giving other, stronger carriers a "run for their money" than worrying about the impact of running a roundtrip that costs about $52,000 a day, and losing $20,000 a day doing it. On an annualized basis, that's a $7.3m loss, just to be in the face of WJ, who have been profitable for something like 7 years straight. That's Milty thinking and that's why AC is bankruptcy protection. I hope you enjoy your wage cut backs because it's YOU that's paying for this sort of stupidity. YXU-YYC didn't work for AC mainline. It didn't work for Tango and it doesn't work for Zip. What part of this don't you get? Add up all the other dogs like this in AC's domestic network, and it's pretty Milty's obsession with chasing WJ is ruining AC. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Simcoe... I can't say I disagree with the thrust of what you're saying, but I'm wondering who you work for? Will you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Do you have something to say about the post our you just adding your two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 What source do you have the bathroom walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I get my facts from our computer system, so don't act as if you know all. Our load factor today in YXU was 72.0%. A good load factor for a Wednesday. I too have heard that Zip load factors in YXU have been unacceptable. If Air Canada or Zip or Tango or Jazz wants to fly to YXU, thats fine with me - I know Westjet will welcome to competition. What bothers me is how Air Canada continues to use bankruptcy protection to continue its attack on the low-cost carriers. Has Air Canada slipped into a coma since April? They continues to charge fares which they can't afford to charge. They continue to fly routes which they aren't making a profit on. They continue to plan for route expansion on routes which do not need the extra capacity (i.e. YHM - YUL). In a time where money is of the greatest concern, its the employees who are loosing in the end. For the sake of the employees of your company I'd hope that Air Canada wakes up from its deep sleep, turns its head to face the future, and realizes that the future is in the black, not in the red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I get the numbers from counting the passengers as they walk on the aircraft and your loads in London are about 61% that's the real numbers and that is why Westjet is cuting the frequency because there was too much frequency by Westjet,and with Zip in London you will not get much higher load than 65% and by the looks of less frequency by Westjet the loads will go up like today at 71%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 You're both missing the point of why AC is shifting the London flight from Calgary to Winnipeg. It's Winnipeg! If you look at Zip's schedule in Winnipeg, and AC's schedule in Winnipeg, you have the makings of a hub in Winnipeg. AC/Zip have more nonstops to more places from Winnipeg than WJ. Zip has more nonstops from Winnipeg to Vancouver, and it has the only nonstops to Ottawa and Montreal. So if it hooks more cities into Winnipeg, it builds a better hub, better economy of scale, etc, in a city where AC has had a long, large historic presence, including a maintenance base, accounting department and call centre. Now, with Tango fares on a lot of Winnipeg AC routes, AC/Zip are the low fare leaders in Winnipeg. It's that simple. That's not a knock against WJ. WJ isn't big enough yet to be dominant on every route, every market. I was in Ottawa two weeks ago flying back to Toronto at 6 p.m. There was a WJ flight to Calgary which looked pretty busy - though I don't count loads - and a Zip flight to Winnipeg which looked pretty busy, too. Chances are both flights made money. If Zip flies Calgary-London, it faces WJ competition head on. Calgary is WJ's biggest, strongest market and it connects from Calgary to more places West of Calgary than Zip. It get more local Calgary traffic than Zip. Winnipeg is undoubtedly good to WJ, but it has a somewhat presence there and AC/Zip has a much bigger presence, including transborder routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 dagger that's what I was trying to say in my first post about Winnipeg being a place that can offer the London passenger a lot more point to point out west than Calgary. The Winnipeg hub to get people away from Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yyzparkcrew Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 the sad thing about ZIP in YXU is that the ground staff handling them is not mainline A/C employees as per the collective agreements reached by all the unions and company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Have you heard about Air Canada operating RJ's out of Hamilton? I heard 6 flights a day. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 The sad thing is that Jazz ramp is not handling Jazz aircraft in all the big base's such as yyz yul yow yvr ect, than Jazz would be making $$$ so you can have the ground for Zip in yxu and Jazz will take all the ground handling for all Jazz metal, and who will lose the most jobs? Yes I think it will be the IAM who lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yyzparkcrew Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 That would be fine with me! Maybe then both Airlines could make money. In YYZ they have cut back the staff so much in the regional operations area it is no longer a senior position. The manpower could be better utilized in the mainline Ops. I know this as I used to work in the Regional Ops area. Ask any Jazz pilot and see if the operation is better now or worse in YYZ. As for Job losses what do you think is happening now? CAW IAM ACPA CUPE are all losing jobs. I just want to let you know I agree with you on the point of employees working their own TIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Hey crew I think Jazz ramp and CSA's in yxu are working the Zip flights because the CAW had made a deal with Zip/AC that the staff at the base's would work the flights I think it's the same in Abbotsford, Victoria, any way how much sense will it make to have AC send in Ramp and CSA's to a base to work one flight and you will just open up a can of worms because if you want my base I want your base you see what I'm trying to say I think it's more based on your work is what is at your base and not on who's tin it is because we all work AC tin. Not that I'm aganst you only working your tin brand and I working my tin brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dash eight Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Which base are you looking at as it sure isnt london Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dash eight Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Wait till the powers at be at GTAA cry to the gov't that their airport is losing traffic to smaller facilities like london and hamilton so please dont allow carriers to operate out of anywhere but toronto.. Gimme a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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