Guest James Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 He said Zip, which flies short-haul trips in and within Western Canada, may introduce service in transborder markets, and perhaps, into Hamilton, the eastern hub of rival Calgary-based discounter WestJet Airlines Ltd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Please post a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Is there any truth to the rumour of Zip's fleet becoming all A319? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 News from The Globe and Mail Tango making its final flight KEITH McARTHUR 00:00 EDT Tuesday, September 30, 2003 Air Canada's discount brand Tango makes its final flight this afternoon when Flight 6039 takes off from Halifax for Toronto at 5 p.m. But the Tango brand will live on as a fare class. With its distinctive purple planes, Tango was chief executive officer Robert Milton's first experiment on running a low-cost airline within Air Canada. Starting tomorrow, instead of operating a dedicated fleet of Tango planes, Air Canada will sell Tango fares on a wider array of aircraft. "We don't see this as the end of Tango, really just the transition into the next phase," said Ben Smith, managing director of Tango. "We are going to be spreading this across Canada, eventually into the U.S. and hopefully into international points." Despite the company spin, some observers see Tango as something of a failed experiment, one that doesn't make sense as Air Canada struggles to emerge from bankruptcy protection. "The fact that they're finally folding up Tango, I would say, is an admission that it's been a mistake," said Ben Cherniavsky, an analyst at Raymond James Ltd. in Vancouver. "I still think the whole thing of multiple-brands just doesn't work in an airline. I know Milton likes to say it works in hotels, but the hotel business is a whole lot different from the airline business." But Mr. Smith said Tango allowed Air Canada to test a number of initiatives that have now become part of the mainline, such as a simplified fare structure, allowing customers to make changes to bookings over the Internet and asking them to pay for on-board meals. "It was our testing ground for the future and the question of: 'How can we evolve Air Canada into something the customer wants and will continue to buy?' " Mr. Smith said. ". . . It was very difficult to push a lot of things through on the mainline. And we used a very small eight-to-twelve aircraft fleet on key routes to pioneer all this stuff. And we think it's a great success because we're now able to expand it countrywide." Because Tango used regular Air Canada employees, its demise does not require layoffs. A handful of Tango managers have been shifted into other jobs. And Mr. Smith said some Air Canada jets will still feature Tango livery in order to promote the fare class. When Air Canada filed for bankruptcy protection on April 1, questions were raised about whether Air Canada would retain its two discount brands Tango and Zip Air Inc. after restructuring. Unlike Zip, Tango did not have the benefit of wage concessions. Its cost efficiencies came through cramming more seats on each plane, making passengers pay for their food, and maximizing Internet ticket sales. That's one reason why some observers were suggesting Tango's days were numbered. "There's no question that Zip is going to survive," said Zip president Steve Smith. "The only question is which aircraft we're going to be operating." Mr. Smith said it's possible Zip may keep its current fleet of Boeing 737s. But the operating plan Air Canada has showed to potential investors mentions retiring all the 737s. It's more likely that Zip will go to a narrow-bodied Airbus fleet. Or Zip might use some of the new aircraft Air Canada is planning to acquire as part of its restructuring, Mr. Smith said. Air Canada has said it wants to buy 85 regional jets with between 70 and 110 seats. These aircraft are expected to be divided between Air Canada's mainline operation and its regional subsidiary Air Canada Jazz -- or possibly -- Zip. He said Zip is planning to grow to a fleet of 20 jets as soon as the question of aircraft type is resolved. He said Zip, which flies short-haul trips in and within Western Canada, may introduce service in transborder markets, and perhaps, into Hamilton, the eastern hub of rival Calgary-based discounter WestJet Airlines Ltd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpy Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Sorry, all the gates at YHM are currently taken.... Whatever happened to Mr. Smith going to London anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DaveCarter Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 A test? A TEST? They tested 2000+ people out of work!!!!! I admit, C3 walked to the edge of the cliff itself, but it was during a 'Tango' that they fell off that cliff!!!! Argh Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Tango didn't have it's first flight until AFTER C3 was done. Your statement is a bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillyBigToe Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Total crap!!!! C3 was gone by the time Tango tangoed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest q650 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 http://Steve.smith.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/outwithbang.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altech Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 As previously stated, Tango's sole mission was to ensure the demise of C3. Yes, C3 was having its problems but it was Tango that nailed the coffin shutt once and for all. Another brilliant move by Mr. Milton whose sole purpose was to destroy the competition, just like AC has been doing for the last 15 years, even with the governments's blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aardvark Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 In July 2000, the airline went public with an initial public offering that priced its shares at $10 each. Months later, it became Canada's second-largest airline with the acquisition of Royal Aviation and CanJet in early 2001. By the summer of 2001, almost 5,000 employees were looking after Canada 3000's 5 million passengers a year on a fleet of more than 40 planes. But air travel began to fall off later in 2001 along with the economy. And after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, travel fell off even more. More than $40 million in debt, and losing $700,000 a day, Canada 3000 tried to shut down its Royal Aviation subsidiary on Nov. 6. When that failed, it filed for and was granted creditor protection on Nov. 8. At midnight on Nov. 8, it issued a terse announcement that it was ceasing all operations. http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/canada3000_timeline.html November 1, 2001 Tango starts operations between Toronto and both Vancouver and Calgary http://www.flytango.com/en/tango/press/17oct2002_1.html wow it only took tango a week to put C-3 outta business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lancaster Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 The bottom line is, it should not have been C3 that could not recover, it should have been AC that had its plug pulled. Save all other Canadians this disaster they call AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ACsidestick Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sam of Old Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 For 65+ years Air Canada has had to compete with many carriers which have started-up and decided to compete with them. It is a time honoured Canadian tradition. In this respect, things will not change. Start-up carriers should expect this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Banana Wind Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I was sitting in a C3 aircraft as a Tango A320 taxied on by T3 headed for rwy 23 in late Sep 01. They showed a lot of class when they slowed down and crawled past T3 for all of us to see, as we wondered if we would even survive. Yes, a real class act to start up Tango realitivly soon after 911 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillyBigToe Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 More CRAP! C3 closed shop within a week of Tango's first flight. How can you suggest that we were even a minor factor in their demise? The airline was not just, "having its problems" as you suggest. They were down for the count. What would you suggest as a business model for Air Canada? If someone comes along and provides competition for us, that we roll over and hand them our customers? Or perhaps should we put up a fight? You know competition. Oh sorry, that's not nice, somehow it's O.K. for WestJet to take what they can but if we respond we're doing something wrong. WestJet is a great airline, they have filled a need for the travelers in Canada. They have shown us a thing or two about how to do business. Do you expect us to sit around and do business the old way, or should we respond? If we did have an effect on C3, too bad. If WestJet is having an effect on our business, too bad. We are in competition, so don't cry and moan that we did in C3, they did it to themselves. I do feel for the employees, I've been set back by the effects of the competition as well, but that’s the way it goes. C3 was a great airline, WestJet is a great airline, Air Canada is a great airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dockjock Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 The actual launch date isn't really the issue though is it. They had been selling tickets and publicizing the launch for months prior, so yes it did have an effect and most likely a profound one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Better check your memory banks. They've been corrupted. Tango's first flight wasn;t until Nov 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Financial Guy Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 C3 was a fantastic airline. At the end of the day, Leckey and Kinnear stopped seeing eye to eye. Throw in the downturn in the industry, no assets, huge outflow of cash, and the rest is history. It's a shame they didn't survive, although Angus was dreading the upcoming pilots negotiations, and his first confrontation with ALPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Banana Wind Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Ok so it was Nov 1st then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Financial Guy Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Perhaps Tango destroyed C3, but let's look at the facts: - Leckey and Kinnear had grown distant, and rumor has it Leckey wanted Kinnear gone. - C3 and Royal pilots couldn't agree to work together (until the bitter end). - C3 had no assets, large cash outflows, and serious debt. - September 11th blindsided everyone, resulting in an industry-wide downturn. - The upcoming pilot negotiations had already caused Angus to threaten to "shut the company down" if the pilots started to get greedy. And, ALPA was on the scene for the negotiations which wouldn't have gone very smoothly for the Company. - The purchase of Royal, based on "suspect" accounting ten months earlier. - John Leckey passed away months later. If C3 did survive, who would be pulling the company's strings after Leckey's death? Yeah, let's blame Tango and AC for C3's demise. Yet WJ, AT, and SV are still around despite 23 months of Tango..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jetblast Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Don't foget that some of the A320s rolled out of the paint shop in early to mid october (for some reason Oct 10th sticks in my mind)in Tango colours still flying AC routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Driven Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Has everyone forgotten the ruling by the competition board that was too little too late? Tango catalyst for failure of airline, says watchdog: 'A fighting brand': Created to hurt competitor, drive it out of business OTTAWA - Air Canada's Tango subsidiary was a factor in driving Canada 3000 Inc. to the brink of bankruptcy, the federal competition watchdog said yesterday. Konrad von Finckenstein, Commissioner of... Byline: Ian Jack , Edition: National Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CDB Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I think it's silly to say Tango was created for the specific purpose of driving C3 out of business. AC needed a product that was more in tune with what customers wanted, and needed to get it to market quickly. AC had a bunch of airplanes, stripped down the costs of operating those airplanes as best they could in the short time frame they had, and voila, Tango was born. Whether it was created to last in the long run is a different story, but to say it was created simply to drive its competitors out of business is fairly narrow-minded imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 C'mon, remember those anti-competition hearings? This man is a blatant Air Canada hater. Canada 3000 went under ONE WEEK after Tango took flight. To say that Tango had any influence on C3's demise is absolutely ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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