Book off line for JAZZ

[Guest theman]

What do you think about the new procedures to book sick and the level 1-2-3-4-5 if they decide you are too often sick????????

[Guest rance]

Seems the only purpose for a management 1-800 number is to intimidate employees. It is a joke when they say it is for managers to keep track of book-offs when they can get that info.daily from crew sched.

I would hope for flight crews that transport would have an issue with this type of program.

Do other airlines have a simular program? just curious.

[John S.]

Hey, this could be fun.

There is a really good idea on the ALPA website web Jazz message fourm. Check it out.

[Guest floatrr]

If you're sick,you're sick. Hard to believe that they think they can recover losses with a program designed to create more stress in the workplace. If anything, the amount of bookoffs will increase IMHO. I think there could be a number of wrongfull dismissal lawsuits that will eliminate any cost saving this team of SIX SIGMA fools think they will accomplish. What really makes me wonder is that when you get hauled up on the carpet for a "meeting" to discuss your absenteeism,it will decrease productivity because it is on a day off and the company will have to give you credit for the day. LMAO at this one.

[Guest rance]

"If anything, the amount of bookoffs will increase".

Even if the bookoffs don't increase the # of sick days will increase. You can book off 5 times for 6 days each for a total of 30 sick days and not get called in.If on the other hand you book off 6 times at one day each you will be called in.

So the guy who was sick 30 days is ok, but the guy who was off 6 days is called in. Makes alot of sense.

If you think your getting better you better take another few days and make sure because if you have to rebook off your screwed.

Was this a 6 sigma brain child?

[Guest q650]

Yep, 6th Sigma and an ex GX manager's dream to have the old sick "program" reinstated at Jazz. Guess he's getting free groceries this month.

[Guest rance]

Does this make him a "black belt" or does he have to implement a few more idiotic projects to reach that status?

[handyman]

But how many times do you get a 24 hour flu in a year? I would suggest if the number approaches 5-6 it just might be a lazy type of flu. Anyone who is actually sick more than five times a year should examine the health aspects of the life style they are living.

We have had an almost identical policy in our airline for about two years now. Major controversy at first but things have settled down now and I'm sure there are less people calling in sick because they are too lazy to work.

[Guest Sopwith]

Every management of every company in the world pays attention to the attendance rate of their employees. All that has happend here is that the pilots that have been abusing the system have been given a collective warning.

For the majority of ppl who only book off with good reason (no mater how often)the program is irrelevant and will never concern them. Even if I end up "in the program", the company doesn't care if I use up all my sick days as long as I never book off without a valid reason ie. being sick.

[.70 mach]

Well guys (and gals),

If you don't like the said program then voice your opinion don't just bitch about it in the crew rooms. Call you union representatives and speak your mind. Write transport a letter stating the company is putting undo pressure upon it's pilots to go to work if they are feeling ill rather than face a review if the call in sick 6 times.

I'll tell you this, ACPA wouldn't put up with this type of "bulling" why should we.

[dragon]

Booking off has very little to do with being “sick".

Booking off has everything to do with self examination, the decision of whether you may apply the strict regulations to your duty period, which the CAR legally requires, along with the moral and legal consequence of your examination on both your livelihood, as well as the safety of the people you are charged with maintaining - for whatever the reason, imo.

cheers

[Guest woxof]

Have you ever or more importantly do you know anyone at Jazz who has occasionally booked off sick. If so, what should be done?

[CD]

I'll tell you this, ACPA wouldn't put up with this type of "bullying" why should we.

Hmmmm... You're right. ACPA would likely flex their muscles. I guess you could always try that and being flight crew I'm sure that this wouldn't be seen as threatening the company... (6)

[Guest rance]

Sopwith;

"For the majority of ppl who only book off with good reason (no mater how often)the program is irrelevant"

You could not be more wrong.It has nothing to do with abuse, but intimidation.If management wants to review attendance they can call crew sched. they don't need a 1-800 number to do it.

Also remember someone does not have to be sick to be unfit to fly. For example if you had a child that you were up with all night because they were sick, you should not be flying on 3 hours sleep.

Also the criteria for corrective action for pilots is the same as ticket agents. I'm sure a ticket or ramp agent can go to work with a head cold, but as a pilot the changes in pressurization could damage your hearing permantly and the resp. is far greater for pilots then working the counter.

Are there a few people that abuse the system, i'm sure there are, but let's not intimidate and pressure people to fly when they shouldn't be.

[Guest Peanuts]

hello all,

As a Reserve F/A I personally think it is great that they are going to finally keep track of the book offs. There are far to many people abusing the system by booking off and then quickly getting Stats paid out for them so it doesn't appear that they called in sick. I get sickened by the knowledge of having to cover for a F/A because she called in sick for 3 days and then to see pix of her at a golf tournament in the crew room from that very same weekend. many other occasions have I had to cover for F/A's and then finding out after the fact that they were simply to hung over to go to work or didn't feel like working that day. Consequently, flights end up getting cx at times due to no more Reserve coverage. Now, there will be people out thtere saying that it is the companies responsibility to have more Reserves then. I personally don't agree with that one bit ! Why should a company have to hire more F/A's so they can have coverage for the people who abuse the system ? If you were to work at a bank or as a nurse do you honestly think one would still be employed if they booked off as much as some of these imature people do ? I think not !

God, my job as a Reserve F/A is to cover for people who are sick or who are off for any other ligitimate reason. Not for lazy arses or partyers.

Wow, I feel much better now that I have vented about this issue. It has irritated me for a long long time.

I don't like this 1-800.. business, but if it will stop the abuse then I am all for it !

Peanuts

[Guest Sopwith]

I agree with you 100% that there are many legitimate reasons for booking off sick. Let me say again that the company is not targeting the pilots that book off for a legitimate reason (sick, fatique, personal problems etc.) The only ones who should be at all intimidated are the ones that believe that going sailing is legal and morally justified reason for booking off sick and these people are out there.

Additionally for those that attribute the high book off rate to low moral. If someone is unhappy with their job, that is a reason to quit not a reason to simply not go to work and expect to get paid for being unhappy.

[Guest rance]

Peanuts;

What % of employees do you feel don't show up for work because they are hung over or at golf tournaments?

Is it not typically the same few people that abuse the system and if so why doesn't management focus their efforts on them?

[Wolfhunter]

A 1-800 line is not how you stop fraudulent book offs; you do it by making an example of abusers. Three examples is usually sufficient…pictures in the crew room is a good place to start. Collective “punishments” don’t work well with an educated/intelligent workforce. It might look good on paper but it really only serves to seriously annoy those who were not previously annoyed. This is not a case of management taking control of a problem; it is a symptom of weak leadership. Letting the problem get to this point is WEAK LEADERSHIP!!

[Guest theman]

First off all te message from K McI.... on the bokk off line is too long..Engl. and FRen. for all bases!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Peanuts]

Hi Rance,

I am based at a smaller base and the % you are asking about is rather high at this base.

It is no wonder folks call this base the Country Club, for nobody ever really seems to bother to go into work.

We had F/A's transfer from bigger bases only to b%#ch and complain about the flying we get out of here and needless to say they book off. Then we get F/A's who got bumped out of their base and bump into our base and don't really feel like commuting therefore once again they simply book off because they simply don't want to bother coming over for a single day pairing.

I can only hope you can understand some of my frustrations in regards to this. Perhaps you can, then again perhaps you can't.

There are also pilots at this base who have booked off more then 14 (single) days within 6 months. I can not say though that I know the reason as to why they did nor is it any of my business. It does seem a bit extreme though.

At the larger bases all this goes unnoticed due to the amount of crews booking off and on all the time, but at a small base it doesn't. And we always find out the reason some of these F/A's book off consistantly, ie. another job, nice sunny day, hung over, bbq, golf.....you name it what not. Rarely is it because it was ligitimate.

I guess this is the down fall of being based at a smaller base. Everyone knows your business even when they really don't give a hoot about your business.

It does get annoying at times though because it is because of these induviduals the rest of us get treated like children by having to phone a new 1-800....number.

Someone always ruins it for the rest of us

Besides all of this I am very happy and am looking forward to going back to school to further my education.

Take care,

Peanuts

[handyman]

So what should an employer do? What do you think a large firm downtown would do with this kind of employee? Why do some of you think this is OK? I guess your new policy will be your official warning and after that you may be looking for a new job.

People that book off for conveniences never seem to think about the people with families called out on reserve. Selfishness and a lack of professionalism are what I see.

[handyman]

I apologize to all the other readers but this conduct boils my blood!

[Guest Rob Assaf]

How fortunate we are to have a qualified flight doctor on our board to dispense advice and solutions! You really should add the Dr. before your name "CP Dude" so that we will all know that we are being advised by proper health authorities.

On the other hand, MY Doctor, an MOT "certified" doctor, in answer to my question a few years back as to why I was getting more than my usual share of ear infections, colds, flu's, etc. offered his opinion as to what the cause was. He pointed out that the ages of my children had a LOT TO DO with my upsurge in illness. Seems that preschoolers aren't the most hygenically disposed crowd. They seem to have no problem with coughing in their hand or wiping their nose and then playing with a toy which they proceed to share with all their friends in the playgroup.

So the solution to improved health would seem to be holding off or never having kids, if you are the true company man, and you can give your 100% best for the company, 24 hrs a day, 365 a year. After all, if you have no kids, what's preventing you from a little "manditory overtime" eh?

I personally see a HUGE problem coming up. In B.C. where I live, the gov health care is in a state much like my parent companies. They frown on unecessary visits to the local health care provider, especially for notes for your company. Now to even further complicate things, a normal GP is NOT QUALIFIED to make a determination of fitness for a pilot. The government won't cover visits specific to our profession so the answer would seem to be that we will be paying for visits to our local MOT qualified doctor and then EXPENSING the company for said visit. Even better would be for the doctor to yank our medical and then charge us a whole MOT medical fee to get it back, my doctor charges 150 per medical FYI.

Are there abusers? NO Doubt. Go after the problems though, NOT THE WHOLE GROUP. Nuking Iraq to get Saddam wouldn't have made much sense either, but this is the equivalant.

Another laugh I had about this was a paragraph from the memo stating that "the high rate of book offs is bad for morale". I think they got it backwards though, the bad morale is probably one of the causes of the high rate of book offs.

Good timing though, we were just starting to get a warm fuzzy feeling about our future. This should bring back everyones perspective.

[Guest rance]

cp dude;

"So what should an employer do?"

If an employer sees a particular employee booking off alot they could call that particular employee in and discuss the situation.

This airline needs to realise that their greatest asset is the employee group and coming up with idiotic programs that pisses off the masses lowers morale and will lower productivity.

Besides the abusers will figure out the system and take more sick days than they are now,they will just do it over less book offs.

Call a spade a spade, this is not a program designed so management can see who is booking off by calling a 1-800 #, that info. is freely available from crew sched.It is strictly a hasstle factor and intimidation.

As I said earlier, unfit to fly for flight crew is not necessarily sick with a dr. note it can be 3 hour sleep with a sick child.

I'm all for going after the abusers of the system, but there are other ways to do it.

[Wolfhunter]

Fraudulent book offs are theft, pure and simple (theft of time, and wages) not to mention the opportunity cost of using your reserve to cover open flying. I don’t know the numbers, but suspect it costs Canadian business billions each year. I still maintain that this is a complete and utter failure in leadership. Disciplinary problems need to handled quietly and effectively at the first opportunity (not left to fester). Morale is important at the best of times; all the more at times like this. In fact, maintaining morale of the troops is one of the principals of war. It strikes me that Air Canada and Jazz are long on managers and short on leadership. The terms are not interchangeable, almost all good leaders are good managers, but most managers are poorly schooled in the art and science of leadership. Policies such as this are proof positive.

Most people seek to remove conflict and confrontation from their daily life (usually a good thing)… a manager at the station you describe does not have that luxury, maintaining morale DEMANDS positive action in circumstances like this and the “troops” will generally respect those actions. Group punishments are a fixture of the “Psychobabble” style of leadership. Ironically, it erodes the morale of those who did not previously have a morale problem and does nothing to address the problem at hand. People are people, leadership is leadership, it doesn’t work in the military and it won’t work at your base.