Guest Sopwith Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 "So what should an employer do?" "If an employer sees a particular employee booking off alot they could call that particular employee in and discuss the situation. " This is exactly what the company is planning to do. They have to send the memo to everyone however in order to warn the future abusers. If you only book off for valid reasons (no matter how often) you have no reason to be concerned about a "fire side chat". Part of the problem for the pilots is that although fatigue and sick children should be considered valid reasons for booking off, our last contract (sec 18-1) only allows for booking off duty "as a result of sickness or injury." This was a bit of an oversight on our negotiating committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 But that's always the case... a few bad apples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Sopwich; "If you only book off for valid reasons (no matter how often) you have no reason to be concerned about a "fire side chat"." Could not disagree with you more. I had a discussion with a union rep and their concern is there is nothing in the labour code stopping the company from dismissing someone from what they determine is too many book offs. First off there benchmark is a total arbitrary number. For example, pilots are the same as stoc and airports, yet flight attendats are allowed more book offs even though we're both flight crew. A manager could determine that hey mr.pilot we've noticed you booked off on these dates were you sick? The pilot answers yes and the company says, well we realise pilots must be 100% to fly and given your attendace maybe your health doesn't suit your position as pilot....see ya. If you think this is an exageration it isn't. The union is very concerned about this being a tool to weed out people they feel are trouble makers (who snag aircraft,won't take drafts, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sopwith Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 rance, "yet flight attendats are allowed more book offs" No one is allowed any book offs without a valid reason. If you read the memo it does say that the numbers mentioned for entry into the program are in no way an indication as to how many times an employee is allowed to book off without a good reason. "There is nothing in the labour code stopping the company from dismissing someone from what they determine is too many book offs." Your statement is absolutely true but if you read the memo it cleary states that the company is only interested in the people who are booking off repeatedly without a valid reason. These ppl don't have a legal leg to stand on and the company would be justified in dismissing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Hi Sopwich; "If you read the memo it does say that the numbers mentioned for entry into the program". Not sure if your a pilot or not,but there is a copy of the program on the alpa site which gives a detailed breakdown for entry and exit into the program; In a 12 month period a f/a is entered into the program with 8 book-offs, a pilot with 6 book offs, airport staff 6 book offs, soc/mtce 6 and ats/mgmt 5. Once a pilot has 6 book offs in 12 months he or she has officially entered the program regardless of the reason for the book offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sopwith Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 rance, you're right that 6 book offs gets me into the program but there is nothing wrong with being in the program as long as y I'm not abusing our sick leave. The truth is that the program is just a euphamism for "The company is watching you". I think it's safe to say that the company is watching everybody's book off rate right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 "I think it's safe to say that the company is watching everybody's book off rate right now." I agree, so other than intimidation and an increase in hasstle factor, why have a 1800#. I think that type of procedure is what ruins morale because we all know the info. they are requesting is readily available from crew sched. The last thing you want to do when your sick is make a second phone call listening to telepromps in french and english. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sopwith Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Of course the information is available from crew sked. The purpose of the 1-800# IS to hasstle and intimidate ppl into doing their job. The company already went down the "do nothing" road and ppl booked off in droves. I don't blame them for getting a little bit desperate. I sure wouldn't want to be paying the lost productivity bill out of my pocket. As far as moral goes, when I see someone on the golf course that I know was scheduled to work its not their moral that goes down, its mine and the guys on reserve who's phone is about to ring calling them to work for someone who is "sick". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest acj Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 rance, what is this 1-800# everyone keeps refering to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I totally agree with you. As for the 1-800# it something the company tried to do before but the "old" teamster Reps stopped it before it even was put into use. I wonder if Teamsters is doing anything about it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Hi Acj; The 1800# is a number to call after you book off with crew sched. to report to your supervisor that you have booked off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1V2Vgo Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Can anyone enlighten me why a Flight Attendant needs 8 book off occurrences to warrant a fireside chat about their health, yet every other employee needs only 6, or even 5 to reach entry level in the program?? My guess is that to keep the program manageable, they did the math, and VOILA.... Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 v1; that's why the program is a joke.its based on arbitrary numbers. Basically compared to others f/a are being awarded for having higher book off rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Nah,...us F/A's need more time off because we have to deal with people who cough on us , vomit near our vicinity, and carry all kinds of germs. Needless to say we get sick a little bit more often. (evidently I guess) But the hardest part of our job which at times drives us almost to the insanitarium is having to deal with the front end crew I am just kidding, heck I don't know why we get more days then everyone else. Perhaps because we make less as a F/A at Jazz then everybody else ??????? Some Rocket Scientist surely figured this out. Peanuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aer Nfld Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Folks, From what I understand the entry points were doe based on historical occurences from the last 21 months or so of data. The fact was that the company was not happy with any of the threshholds but to go any lower would mean that in the case of inflight nearly 65% of the FA's would have been on the rpogam, therefore they elected to go with this number to avoid to many people being placed in the program. If you read the fine print however there is an opener to ratchet these down as the program moves forward. As for all of the rants on the book off line, I cannot see what the hoopla is, if you book off 4 or 5 times a year what is the big deal about an extra minute to call the 1-800 line. It seems like much adieu about nothing. Plus if you do not abuse the system who cares what kind of program is in existence if you are then, good, I for one would like to see this company succeed and if this program saves a few dollars for Jazz than giddy up. This place needs a few more moves with Kahunas so that people realize it is being managed and not on auto pilot which it would appear it has been. But if history holds true and the management style of the Exec we have they will cave to the posts on this site by a handful of folks and some of the criticism they get while and the road and toast the 1-800 number, whihc really shows the fortitude we have come to view, does anyone stick to their guns anymore..anyone want to wager! If it happens think of the message that sends to everyone else!!! T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1V2Vgo Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 "if you book off four or five times, what is the big deal.." Well, for most of us other non F/A employees, it could be, because it puts you beyond the entry level threshold, and thus in the program. Is that a big deal? Time will tell, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floatrr Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Put it to rest. You book off if you are unfit for duty. This means you are either Physically,Mentally or Emotionally unfit to fly. The reasons for any of this is not any of managements business, and no specific explanation is required(legally) other than " I'm unfit for duty". Noone at the company can legally query any further than that. We don't live to work. We work to live. Sh*t happens in life ,and being physically sick is not the only reason to book off. Given that, I feel the company should look into some special cases,but to pinalize an entire group is foolery. If the company wants to improve loss prevention ,then my best suggestion would be to sit down at the old negotiating table and get a plan together. What they have done here is they have managed to Pi$$ off the group that has come up with solutions for the company to prosper and this is what we get. A message for the Six Sigma team, (or whatever you call yourselves) If you want to decrease bookoffs, NEGOTIATE IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Of course there is also the opportunity for the Unions/associations to take ownership and use peer pressure on the cronic offenders instead of simply stating that it is a management responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floatrr Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 A good point. I think this pressure is already evident in most cases however, there are some that probably don't care what effects the book off causes. For them ,they will be weeded out, but for those with ligitimate reasons they will be harassed as well. Not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Unfortunatly the ones weeded out are usually the ones the company has a beef with. Not necessarily because they booked off more than someone else. It's all about politics at times. Peanuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floatrr Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 Another good point. This program should be shot down in flames by ALL unions/associations. Makes me sick to think how much MANAGEMENT will be required to implement such a program.( Preservation of management positions) These epeople should work the line somewhwere if they really want to make a difference to the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floatrr Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 Another good point. This program should be shot down in flames by ALL unions/associations. Makes me sick to think how much MANAGEMENT will be required to implement such a program.( Preservation of management positions) These people should work the line somewhere if they really want to make a difference in cost savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1V2Vgo Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 FYI, This program is now on hold, for pilots, pending further discussion between ALPA and the employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theman Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Hope TEAMSTERS will do something too....A hold as well!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amejazz Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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