We Fly AC and United

[Kip Powick]

23 April 03 AC 577 YYZ – DEN

Smooth check in, especially with the electronic tickets. The SARS issue probably contributed to the lack of travelers in T2. Pushed back about 3 minutes early and an uneventful departure, (319). The onboard service was just superb and the lunch served was a little better than some of the charter flights we have been on. Did notice that there was no movie, just a bunch of “shorts” for the duration of the flight. Excellent PAs from the front end and the cabin crew, the only thing missed was the 2 hour time change….not mentioned by anyone.

The last hour of the flight was pretty bumpy and we actually had to go North of DEN and then approach the airport from the West due to bad weather. Very nice landing and about an hour after we landed there was a blinding snowstorm which apparently delayed the return flight to YYZ.

(It took us 4 hours to drive 60 miles to Colorado Springs due to car accidents and poor driving conditions. 15 miles North of Colorado Springs the snow stopped and it was a sunny, but windy day).

25 Apr 03 DEN - SLC(Salt Lake City) United Airlines

We now know why you best be at the airport two hours prior to a flight. Random selection of pax for full X-ray of baggage and the process takes quite awhile as you must wait for luggage and in many cases security opens a bag and takes everything out. Ours cleared easily but we still had to wait for the process. The number of people going through the normal carry-on luggage and personal screening was about 150 and that took about 20 minutes with 8 rows of people going through. Time from check in to the aircraft gate was close to 1+45 hrs.

There is no doubt that United looks after their employees and retirees, which includes all Star Alliance members. If “J” is not full, employees and retirees on passes are automatically upgraded. I’m not anti-bilingual but it sure is nice to only have to listen to all PA’s in one language.. United also devotes Channel 9 ( on headsets) for those that want to listen to ATC and the crew.

28 Apr 03 SLC – DEN United Airlines

Very slick operation, even checked our luggage right through to YYZ, which saved the trouble in DEN ( we were to go home the same day). In this case we were at the airport 2 hours prior and security and all took about 10 minutes and we were at the gate !!!!Once again, automatic upgrade.

28 Apr 03 DEN – YYZ AC 578.

Spent a few hours in the airport and if you have been there you know it is well laid out and has everything. Easy check in and once again automatic upgrade. We were delayed about 40 minutes after we boarded, (mechanical delay), as a “spoiler had to be locked out” but the crew kept everyone informed as the delay progressed. Again, excellent service onboard, very informative PAs and a smooth flight. The crew stated that they would try to make up some of the time and they did. We were only 10 minutes late in arriving at YYZ. A superb landing, but what else would you expect from the F/O who was ex-CP . We did know we were in YYZ though as the Captain stated we were “short of the gate awaiting our marshalling crew”. The delay was just under 4 minutes. The only comment I heard from disgruntled pax was the extremely long walk to Customs. We were parked at 223 , (I think), and of course that was the topic of conversation as we endured the route march to Customs and naturally the pax blamed AC for the poor layout of T2.

SUMMARY

This was our first time as pass users on AC and I must say we were very happy with the service and the attitude of the employees we did meet. Naturally they did not all know we were retirees and if the level of service we acquired on the two AC flights is at all indicative of the service overall, it should be considered as very good.

One negative thing, perhaps as seen from a customers point of view. It has been mentioned here on AEF about the abundance of employees standing around in T2 so naturally I looked about. It is true…there seemed to be a lot of individuals sitting and standing in groups and not doing much, but then again perhaps it was “break-time” and we also have to consider that employees are thirsty for any information about the state of the company and their job so perhaps this “clustering” is to be expected.

[jkavafian]

Glad to hear that you had a good flight. Too bad as a paying passenger I never had a good flight on UA. I am also pleased that they automatically upgrade employees and those travelling on passes. It would be awful to think that they would instead upgrade some passegengers to thank them for their patronage.

I also agree that in Canada all announcement should be in one language. I think it should just be in French.

But seriously, I think that service on AC has been really good these days. You have to remember that customers must come first, not employees travelling on passes.

The Chairman of Toyota was quoted in a Japanese Magazine as saying "customers who buy our cars are doing us a favour". This is true of any business, including airlines.

[Guest Mtc.]

jkavafian, I'm not sure if you are an employee using some tongue in cheek or not, but with AC's practice of employee recognition being next to nil, if it wasn't employee recognizing employee once in a while, there would be no recognition at all...

This is not meant as a woah is me but a pat on the back for the employees who do show appreciation when possible...

[dragon]

One of the very first things Bethune did, within days of his appointment to CEO at CO, was to initiate an auto upgrade of employees, space available. He also encouraged employees to engage the company's customers.

He then initiated an initiative to let employees know he considered them as an integral part of success, not the word but rather the action. The reality then spread by the word – from the mouths and hearts of employees and really, is that not the better way?

Dagger has said many times that employee / Management relations of are no consequence to success, he often points to the Carty / AA model. I suppose those comparisons are over.

Of course CO did OK after that.

cheers

[Guest Toron1]

Yes Jack, I agree with you that all announcements in Quebec should be done in one language, French, and also in one language in the rest of Canada, English with the exception of New Brunswick where they are the only bi-lingual province.

PS. I ignore any of your articles that you write as they come from a fuzzy clouded mind and have very little wisdom and understanding behind them.

[Beth]

Kip:

I think the prevelance of employees 'lounging about' has a lot to do with the removal of the staff cafeteria a few years back. There is only limited space in each department's lounge in T2.

B.

[dagger]

Actually, I always pointed to Crandall, not Carty. Different timeframe. Quite important distinction. As for the current AA situation, notwithstanding Carty's big blunder, AA is in precisely the same situation today as it would be with Joe Schmo as CEO. And employees have ratified their concessions anyway.

I rest my case.

[dragon]

You have indeed, of course my mistake, Crandall rather.

As for Joe Schmo, you may very well be correct, though I still do not accept that this issue is that black and that white. I do not believe we will change each other's minds.

It was a big blunder, it was also very interesting to watch a group of unified flight attendants play an instrumental role in Carty's decision to 'step down'. There was no ratification as long as Carty was in the saddle and the BOD knew that.

I rest my case as well.

cheers

[Guest Pull Up]

Beth,

While the closure of the cafeteria had some effect, it is still disturbing to see so many employee's standing or sitting around doing nothing, and it certainly dosen't help our image as far as the customer is concerned. Maybe Milton is right, and there are way to many employees for the jobs to be done. If nothing else employees on break should take the advice I got from a construction foreman in my younger days- "If there is absolutley nothing to do you better find a good place to hide cause I don't want to see you doing nothing". When paying customers see all these people doing nothing they start feeling that the high priced tickets are to pay for union sponsored "Welfare".

[jkavafian]

First, my name is Jacques, not Jack. Second, I think your own mind must be fuzzy cause I have never written an article in my life. Others insist on using what I say in their articles. However, I stand by (almost) everything I have ever said.

PS. Thanks for the compliments. I rather take my clouded mind than your clear vision. Have you ever heard the saying, "I'd rather be approximately right than precisely wrong"?

[dagger]

I'd call that union solidarity exploiting a tipping point. What was the choice? Concessions without Chapter 11, or concessions with Chapter 11? It's not like they were walking around with buttons like "Full Pay to the Last Day".

[dozerboy]

As much as I hate to agree with Jacques, I believe that our loyal AC paxs should be given some access to our J class as a reward for loyalty. I say some, not all. The key is to reward loyalty without having all loyal customers come to expect J class upgrades without ever paying for it.

At the same time it would be great for employee morale if occasionally J class, when open, offered to our longtime loyal employees whether it be the narly old captain or the seasoned maintenance worker who keeps the fleet going.

[Guest soarcerer]

Northwest Airlines has a policy that stipulates that no Ramp personnel are allowed to be found in the terminal while in NW uniform. They are welcome to venture into the terminal, but must remove their coveralls and anything else that would identify themselves as employees.

I would imagine that similar policies exist in other carriers. The public simply do not understand the nature of the duties of ramp workers. There are periods when the rampies are very busy and then there are off-peak periods. A passenger gets the wrong impression when they see many workers hanging areound Tim's and reading the paper or shopping etc. and feel that they must be paying extra for the apparent idleness.... hence the rule.

Employees are quite free to spend their breaks in the terminal in civvies.

I was told once that Boston Logan is an airport where only public contact employees are allowed in the public areas for similar reasons (... I don't know if this is true, so perhaps someone could verify this.)

Food for thought, in our 'image is everything' world.

[60N30W]

Kip,

As a Canadian and an airline pilot I take pride in being able to do the PA in both official languages and if I am heading overseas I try my best to at least say "hello" in the language of the destination country.

Last time I checked we had the Canadian flag on the side of the a/c and we have two official languages here.

Good night, Bon soir, Buenas noches, Shalom

P.S. What were the loads like?

[Cargo Agent]

I guess the NW rampies at MSP never saw that memo. On several trips through there I always saw rampies heading for coffee.

[Kip Powick]

You can't fight city hall and I am certain Bilingualism, with all its anchors and misspent money, is here to stay and my personal opinion about this contentious subject is not worth squat but …hey…. it is my opinion…….. an awful lot of money spent in an attempt to prove/pacify something/someone and I think the money could have been better spent.

Loads???

YYZ – DEN about 70%

DEN-YYZ about 50%

[Guest]

Jacques,

have you ever heard the expression,close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

[Guest]

Well said!

[inchman]

While I agree that it would be nice to provide our passengers with the occasional treat, upgrading passengers to J as part of normal procedure would appeal to the "lottery" attitude.

There already exists a "treat" system for regular travellers that provides them with a path to an upgrade.

Let's say Pax A paid full J fare and ended up sitting beside someone who paid 1/4 of your fare but were upgraded under the random plan. Would Pax A pay full J next time, or would they take their chances by buying an economy seat? And what would happen if Pax A didn't get upgraded when they took their chances... would they then complain about getting shafted if they didn't get upgraded with open seats in J. If we upgrade the highest ranking Aeroplan members at departure time with no point charge, it defeats the entire purpose of one aspect of the Aeroplan program.

Frequent passengers have the capability to upgrade with the "currency of privilege" or "proof of worth" that they earn on every flight, car rental or hotel room, right up to departure time. It could be said that employees earn a mile of the privilege every day they are at work and would gladly stand behind those who earn it through regular miles and exercise their right to use that currency.

History under "errorplan", as some would call it even though it continually wins "best of" awards, would imply that there is some sense of expectation that eventually grows and backfires on the benefactor airline.

At least if you're sitting beside an upgraded employee after paying full J, it's easy to see the difference in the situation rather than wondering why you paid all the big bucks while a regular passenger on a bargain fare gets a gratis upgrade.

And it wouldn't raise your expectation of a lottery win next time you travel.

[Guest Pete Jensen]

Thanks for the compliments Kip !

... I flew you to DEN on the 23rd and... yeah, it was a crappy day for flying but definatly not unsafe... Mother Nature can be circumnavigated some days... just takes a bit of extra fuel and planning...(did I say planning ?... OK I meant luck... OK... planned luck !) you know these things, I'm preaching to those who don't understand and you definately aren't in that category.

Sorry about the "time zone" thing... I normally try to keep my customers up to date about those aspects... must have been an oversight on my part !

See you at the Bristol on the 3rd... look down the retiremtent "list" on your paperwork, you might notice "another Jensen"

Best wishes for a long and healthy one !!

Skaal,

Peter Jensen

[jkavafian]

How is that relevant?

[dragon]

You call it union solidarity exploiting a tipping point, I call it employees responding to a stimuli.

What was the choice? From an employee standpoint, who cares if your salary is cut 20% in or out of Chapter 11?

Carty's efforts were to avoid Chapter 11, he failed because of his choices and his actions, the employees held him accountable. They were not wearing FPTTLD buttons, they were wearing stop your BS buttons and they were not bluffing either by the look of it.

[Guest QFE]

"Last time I checked we had the Canadian flag on the side of the a/c and we have two official languages here."

Not quite true.

Canada is not officially bilingual, nor does it have two official languages. It is only the Parliment of Canada and its institutions which have two official languages, and it is only the Parliment of Canada and its institutions which can be classified as officially bilingual.

If Princess Margaret Hospital did't have to turn away thousands of cancer patients for lack of funding...if A/C, now in CCAA, was not forced to spend tens of millions of dollars they don't have on french training...if our education system was up to par...if our military wasn't such a joke on the world stage...if my taxes were lower...if,if,if.

There are many more important places our taxes should go than into french.

IMHO

[jkavafian]

"There are many more important places our taxes should go than into french.

IMHO"

Keep your useless opinions to yourself, will you?

[Guest 6to8mos]

I have heard, but not seen for myself that in Continentals inflight magazine there is a quote from Mr. G. Bethune something to the effect of ... If you see some of our employees in First Class it is because they are.