Fire (water) Bombing

[Malcolm]

Saskatchewan airtanker fleet set to be replaced as forest fires rage

By Andrew Benson  Global News

Posted April 23, 2024 3:00 pm

 2 min read

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A sample of what the Dash 8-Q400AT planes will look like was shown off at the Regina International Airport on April 23, 2024. Dave Parsons / Global News

 

Saskatchewan recorded one of the worst years on record for forest fires in 2023 and as crews prepare for the years ahead,help is on the way.

Four repurposed land-based airtanker aircraft will be replacing the current fleet to fight fires across the province.

“Saskatchewan relies on land-based airtanker aircraft as part of its approach to managing wildfires,” Corrections, Policing and Public Safety Minister Paul Merriman said. “These aircraft are used in instances where waterbombers may not be able to access lakes to fill up their tanks.”

The aircrafts in question come with a total price tag of $187 million set to be paid by 2029.

“This is an investment that’s just not about this summer or next summer but it’s about the longer term, the next number of decades and keeping our communities safe,” Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe said.

 

From the new fleet, the Conair 8-Q400At planes are dedicated airtankers with a focus on dispersing fire retardant, while the 8-Q400MRE will be used for multiple purposes, like passenger evacuation and transporting cargo.

“Saskatchewan leads the country in preparing for future disasters with their order for four modern emergency response aircraft,” Conair Aerial Firefighting president and CEO Matt Bradley said. “They are the first province to invest in the safety and security of their citizens with a purchase of the multi-role airtankers, built by Canadians for Canadians.”

The current fleet of planes has been in operation for over two decades, according to the Saskatchewan Public Safety Authority (SPSA), without including their lives before fighting fires.

The old fleet will reach the end of its lifespan near 2027.

“These planes will replace the SPSA’s aging land-based airtanker fleet with a modern, supportable aircraft with an anticipated useful life of 25 years,” Merriman said. “They will also support the SPSA’s ability to provide an operational response to more emergencies and public safety events beyond wildfires.”

The first plane is expected to take off in 2025, with the remaining arriving by the end of 2027.

Dash 8-400AT Airtanker - Conair Aerial Firefighting

The Dash 8-400AT airtanker is currently being manufactured in Abbotsford, British Columbia, by Conair.

FEATURES

• Quick response on initial dispatches and turn-arounds
• High climb rate and excellent slow speed flight characteristics
• Operational from 5,000' runways
• Fuel efficient - low fuel burn per litre/gallon retardant/suppressant hauled compared to similar size aircraft
• 30% less emissions than aircraft of similiar size
• Multi role variant available (Dash 8-400MRE) – airtanker, passenger, cargo, medevac, or combi configuration

AIRCRAFT SPECIFICATIONS

• Maximum take-off weight:

  68,200 lbs

• Maximum zero fuel weight:

  60,400 lbs

• Maximum landing weight:

  61,750 lbs

DELIVERY SYSTEM SPECIFICATIONS

• Maximum Tank capacity:

  10,000 litres (2,640 US gallons)

AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE

• Cruise speed loaded:

  360 knots

• Drop Speed:

  125 knots

Conair Dash 8-400AT airtanker to support firefighters in France | AirMed&Rescue (airmedandrescue.com)

“Conair carefully selects the aircraft that make up its fleet to pro

[W5]

Both of Coulson's Martin Mars aircraft find new homes

https://fireaviation.com/2024/04/26/pima-museum-scores-philippine-mars/

 

Pima Museum scores Philippine Mars

Author Kelly Andersson Posted on26. April 2024

The British Columbia Aviation Museum announced last month that it had acquired Martin JRM Hawaii Mars, and yesterday the Pima Air and Space Museum (PimaAir.org) announced it has acquired the Philippine Mars.

Coulson Aviation said the Philippine Mars — one of just seven flying boats built by Martin JRM Mars — will be transported to the PASM east of Tucson later this year, according to a feature story by Vintage Aviation News.

“This has been an exciting month for both Martin Mars waterbombers,” said Coulson CEO Wayne Coulson. “As a fitting tribute to their years of service and years of hard work by many people in B.C. and the U.S., we are pleased to see both Mars aircraft landing to rest at world-class institutions in 2024.” The Mars aircraft were built between 1942 and 1947, and the giant aircraft flew cargo between Hawaii and the Pacific Islands in support of the U.S. Navy. After World War II the aircraft and crews flew in the Korean War, making medical air transport flights between Hawaii and California, and then doing hauling cargo between Hawaii and California before they were  decommissioned back in 1956.

The first was christened The Old Lady; after that the production planes were called Hawaii Mars, Philippine Mars, Marianas Mars, Marshall Mars, Hawaii Mars II (named after the original Hawaii Mars was destroyed), and lastly,  Caroline Mars. Hawaii and Philippine are the only Martin JRM Mars aircraft remaining today.

courtesy Maryland Aviation Museum — mdairmuseum.org

In 1958 the remaining four were sold  to a consortium of timber companies in British Columbia and converted into waterbombers that could carry 7200 U.S. gallons. In 2007 Coulson purchased the Hawaii Mars and the Philippine Mars, launching its fixed-wing air operations for aerial wildland firefighting.

courtesy mdairmuseum.org/mars-history

“We are pleased to have the Philippine Mars join our museum where we will preserve this World War II-era aircraft for decades to come,” said Scott Marchand, CEO of the museum at Pima. The Philippine Mars is expected  in Arizona later this year. The museum — at PimaAir.org — features some  400 historic aircraft, an amazing collection ranging from a Wright Flyer to a 787 Dreamliner.

Pima map

Sited on 80 acres at the eastern edge of Tucson, the museum opened to the public in May of 1976 and has for 40+ years grown and expanded. Today the facility includes six indoor exhibit hangars (three dedicated to WWII), along with extensive outdoor grounds and interpretive displays and other features to welcome visitors and charm aviation enthusiasts. Admission’s under $20 with discounts for kids, seniors, and locals. The museum’s about 5 miles from the Tucson International Airport, and it’s open 7 days a week, closed only on Thanksgiving and Christmas. You can’t visit this place just once. 

[J.O.]

Good! Hopefully now the Port Alberni mafia will stop whining that BC isn’t using a Model A era airplane to fight wildfires. 

Edited April 27 by J.O.

[Malcolm]

HuH?  They did have a point.  

[Tango Foxtrot]

Has anyone put any thought as to how you get a Giant flying boat to Pima 

[Malcolm]

in pieces I guess. 

[Maverick]

Pima is one of the most amazing aviation museums on the planet. I've been there a few times!

Pima Air and Space Museum | Walk | Strava

[Jaydee]

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

Pima is one of the most amazing aviation museums on the planet. I've been there a few times!

Pima Air and Space Museum | Walk | Strava

Totally agree. A must see if you are ever in Tucson.

On a related subject I was lucky enough to tour the boneyard next door about 6 years ago before they closed it to the public. It was an amazing experience!

 

Edited Thursday at 02:15 PM by Jaydee

[J.O.]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:10 AM, Malcolm said:

HuH?  They did have a point.  

No, they didn't have a point. BCWS stopped using it because it was about as unreliable as an air asset could be while still being considered "airworthy". It also couldn't take water from most of the lakes in the province other than Okanagan and Kootenay because it needed the room to get out with a load on board.

[Malcolm]

38 minutes ago, J.O. said:

No, they didn't have a point. BCWS stopped using it because it was about as unreliable as an air asset could be while still being considered "airworthy". It also couldn't take water from most of the lakes in the province other than Okanagan and Kootenay because it needed the room to get out with a load on board.

Sproat lake is not exactly huge.  Is the following accurate?

Found in a facebook post.  And of course there was also the Pacific Ocean.  

Here is the full list of lakes that the Mars can scoop from in BC.

[Malcolm]

Saluting the Martin Mars - Wings Magazine

A quote from the article:

• OS
• EVENTS 
• MRO DIRECTORY
• CAREERS IN AVIATION 

 

 

 

 

Features  Operations
Saluting the Martin Mars

Dan McIvor preached the concept of “gallons per hour” in terms of aerial firefighting, putting as much water as possible on the fire as soon as possible and not letting up. For years, forestry was the economic engine of Vancouver Island and every acre lost to wildfire had a direct impact on the bottom line of the forestry companies, which in turn had implications on the total economy of the region. The Mars quickly proved to be the right tool for the job. Vancouver Island is almost 300 miles long, but no more than 50 miles across at its widest. With a number of large lakes in the interior of the island, there are not many spots that are more than 15 minutes between a water source and the delivery point for the Mars.

Working together, the two aircraft would work opposite sides of a circular route that would see them working a fire in a constant one-two barrage. Early in the day, with a full load of fuel, the load would be 4,000 gallons of water, but as the fuel went down, the amount of water would increase until by the end of the day, the load would be the full 7,200 U.S. gallons. In the first year of operation in 1963, 495,000 gallons were dropped on nine operational fires and in 1965, the two aircraft dropped more than one million gallons.

[J.O.]

Talk to anyone who worked in the air attack program at BCWS when the Mars was active and they will tell you a much different story regarding available lakes, especially on a typical hot day in the summer. But the biggest issue was reliability. It lost many available days due to maintenance issues - mostly with the engines.

Edited Thursday at 06:15 PM by J.O.

[Malcolm]

43 minutes ago, J.O. said:

Talk to anyone who worked in the air attack program at BCWS when the Mars was active and they will tell you a much different story regarding available lakes, especially on a typical hot day in the summer. But the biggest issue was reliability. It lost many available days due to maintenance issues - mostly with the engines.

I have talked with some folks who worked at the base. So some are pro and some are con. 

Oh well the next chapter will be how you get a water based plane to a desert Museum.

There are picture of the Mars on wheels but those were only for moving it around the mtce area and would likely not be adequate for take off or landing. So it will be a story to follow. 

[Kip Powick]

The Hawaii Martin Mars can land and take off only on water, so its last flight will be from Sproat Lake to the Saanich Inlet near the Victoria International Airport. The aircraft will be brought up on a ramp at Canadian Coast Guard Base Patricia Bay, a former seaplane port, mounted on a trailer in a swivelling cradle and transported across Victoria International Airport runways.

 

Perhaps they will retrofit wheels for the trip south, or take the wings off, and transport by truck ..(I doubt the wings off).. I am sure there will be more news before the move.

 

[Malcolm]

59 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

The Hawaii Martin Mars can land and take off only on water, so its last flight will be from Sproat Lake to the Saanich Inlet near the Victoria International Airport. The aircraft will be brought up on a ramp at Canadian Coast Guard Base Patricia Bay, a former seaplane port, mounted on a trailer in a swivelling cradle and transported across Victoria International Airport runways.

 

Perhaps they will retrofit wheels for the trip south, or take the wings off, and transport by truck ..(I doubt the wings off).. I am sure there will be more news before the move.

 

It would be quite the retrofit.  

[W5]

And the aircraft hasn't flown since 2012.

[Kip Powick]

4 hours ago, Malcolm said:

It would be quite the retrofit.  

True, but I can see them welding a cradle with a bunch of tires on each side.....naturally no retraction and as long as they worked for the last flight....all is well.

Tangent............sometimes going off the book works

I was in the Arctic with a Cosmo,( Military  CV580) when the right  oleo collapsed during an overnight. No matter what maintenance and my F/E did they could not get the oleo to inflate for any long period of time  and level the aircraft. Had about 12 super VIPs going back to Ottawa. My F/E was a rather ingenious guy and he asked me if  I would allow them to inflate the oleo which would last inflated for about 15 minutes, enough time to taxi and get airborne. And he suggested as soon as it was inflated  he would wrap the inner piston with two inch rope to about the height it should normally be on the ground. He would then wrap the rope with about two rolls of speed duct tape .

He said as long as the landing was "ok" in Ottawa the weight of the aircraft would just " crush the sh!t" out of the rope but if the landing was "OK" there would be no metal to metal contact on touch down and roll out............I himmmed and hawwed and finally told him to go for it. If we had to wait for a MRP, (Mobile Repair Party), from OW we would probably be about 48-72 hours late if the repair went well.

There was nothing unusual about the start, taxi and T/O  and so far all was well. Worked my butt of trying for a 'greaser' in OW and  "came close" and on roll out we had about 5-10 degrees right wing  down. Taxied in and unloaded and then I rushed out to look at the oleo.....we had about 1/2 inch of crushed and mangled rope and tape  before we would  have been  metal to metal .ARRGGGHHH 

[Malcolm]

13 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

True, but I can see them welding a cradle with a bunch of tires on each side.....naturally no retraction and as long as they worked for the last flight....all is well.

Would be quite the exercise, 

1. aircraft would need to be flown to a lake or waterways close to a runway

2. it would then have to be hauled out of the water and fitted with the gear

3. take off and land with no averse pressure on the welded gear.

It would seem to be an impossible dream but who knows..... 

• Empty weight: 75,573 lb (34,279 kg)
• Gross weight: 90,000 lb (40,823 kg)
• Max takeoff weight: 165,000 lb (74,843 kg)