Fire (water) Bombing

[mo32a]

22 hours ago, conehead said:

I doubt there is anything in the budget left for such a thing. The RCAF just spent $2.4 billion on a fleet of 16 new SAR aircraft. 

https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/amd-dp/air/arsvf-fwsar/remplacement-replacement-eng.html#a1 

Budget, we don't need no stinkin budget.

[boestar]

On 3/31/2022 at 3:30 PM, GDR said:

Out of curiosity I wonder if the CL 515 could be adapted as a rescue aircraft. If so it would be a great aircraft for the RCAF. It could be used to fight forest fires as well as being able to get into small lakes as a rescue aircraft.

Does anyone know whether it could be used as is, or developed that way.

Not likely since the water tanks are integral to the fuselage.

[J.O.]

The water tanks don't take up much of the interior space in the CL water bombers. Even the original piston 215's had rows of "seats" in the forward cabin ahead of the tanks.

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by J.O.

[IFG]

On 4/12/2022 at 11:54 AM, J.O. said:

The water tanks don't take up much of the interior space in the CL water bombers. Even the original piston 215's had rows of "seats" in the forward cabin ahead of the tanks.

Hi, J.O. - Yep, water is dense stuff. Maybe Greg's on to something here. Lots of deck space for the SARtech's, fill up the water tanks with gas for long-range patrol/loitering, and still a water-bomber as well  (applicable for insurrections in the nation's capital?)

Cheers - IFG 

[Guest1]

Vancouver Island company retrofits Boeing 737 into firefighting plane

Link to story and video.

Port Alberni's Coulson Aviation completes new firefighting plane | CTV News

 

[Maverick]

1 hour ago, Kargokings said:

Vancouver Island company retrofits Boeing 737 into firefighting plane

Link to story and video.

Port Alberni's Coulson Aviation completes new firefighting plane | CTV News

 

For the life of me I can't understand why they're using 737 classics and not NG's? 

There are literally hundreds of lower time and much newer 737NG's out there that are still supported by Boeing engineering and they are also a better suited aircraft for what they're doing.

[Guest1]

31 minutes ago, Maverick said:

For the life of me I can't understand why they're using 737 classics and not NG's? 

There are literally hundreds of lower time and much newer 737NG's out there that are still supported by Boeing engineering and they are also a better suited aircraft for what they're doing.

I imagine it came down to $$$$$$ 

[Guest2]

Penticton, B.C. to say goodbye to Convair air tankers this season

By Taya Fast  Global News

Posted September 8, 2022 9:01 pm

 

The Convair air tankers have become a staple at the Penticton Airport during wildfire season. For more than 20 years the tankers have been supporting BC Wildfire Service, but this season will be their last.

• It’s the end of an era for the Convair Conair 580 tankers. The wildfire fighting aircraft have called the Penticton airport home during wildfire season for more than 20 years, and this season will be their last.

Tankers 44, 49, and 55 will officially retire after their contract ends next week, unless extended by BC Wildfire Service (BCWS).

Long-time Convair pilot Grahame Wilson said the tankers have become a staple in the community.

“There’s kind of a fan club in Penticton for these plans. I’ve had people come up to me, people know the tanker numbers and who flies each tanker,” said Wilson.

Wilson plans to do a final water drop and fly over Penticton before the three planes are flown to Abbotsford.

READ MORE: Wildfire air tankers return to Penticton, B.C. ahead of wildfire season

“I’d like to thank all the people in the Okanagan for all their good wishes for the Convair program and seeing them off,” added Wilson.

This will also be Wilson’s final season with the team.

“I’ve kind of been the unofficial curator of the Convair at Conair. I teach at the ground schools and train pilots and so it seems to be the right time for me to follow the airplane to the museum in Victoria,” said Wilson.

The Convair tankers were converted from commercial airliners, stripped right down to the skeleton in the cabin to maximize the load that the planes can carry.

“The engines have up to 4000 horsepower each, so one of the great things about the Convair is it’s power. It’s really nice to have a lot of power in terrain that we have here in southern B.C.,” said Wilson.

“And they carry 8,000 litres of retardant and as directed by the Bird Dog, we can drop that in a long line or we can make a drop on the ground whatever [the air attack officer] directs.”

1:51Unauthorized drones shut down fire operations

Unauthorized drones shut down fire operations – Aug 30, 2022

The new tankers will be a modern version of the old fleet.

“The newer aircraft are very modern. They have things like autopilots, flight management, system hydraulicals, boosted flight controls,” said Wilson.

“The Convair is all manual and to be honest, flying this airplane it’s like driving your car when the power steering isn’t working. So it’s very it’s very arm strong to muscle this around.”

The tankers, owned by Abbotsford-based Conair Group, have supported BC Wildfire Service fighting blazes across the province.

“The BC Wildfire Service tries to focus its efforts on initial attack and that’s the prime rule for our tankers is  to hit them hard and fast, was the old terminology,” said BC Wildfire Service Air Attack Officer Ben Moerkoert

 

“Air tankers try to suppress the fire, contain it with retardant. It’s to retard the growth of the fire, it doesn’t put it out. Some people think we drop on the fire to put it out, we don’t, we just try to contain.”

The tankers try to contain the fire and hold it and until ground crews, helicopters and heavy machinery can put the fire out.

BC Wildfire Service Air Attack Officer Ben Moerkoert directs the three tankers from the Bird Dog plane.

“I supervise their activities on fires,” said Moerkoert.

“Basically, I’m the firefighter and they are the people that drive the aircraft. They follow my instructions, to the best of their abilities.”

There are plans for one of the Convair aircraft to go to the Centre for Excellence Museum in Kelowna, another will go to a museum in Victoria and another will be taken for parts.

[Guest2]

B.C. water bomber and its captain retire after nearly 40 years of service

Happy Retirement: Conair Water bomber and its captain make final flight – Canadian Aviation News (wordpress.com)

[Guest1]

Coulson Aviation to bring another C-130 airtanker online this summer

BY SKIES MAGAZINE | MARCH 14, 2023

 

 

Coulson Aviation to bring another C-130 airtanker online this summer - Skies Mag

Coulson Aviation, headquartered in Port Alberni, British Columbia, announced in early March that at least one more C-130 Hercules aircraft is joining the company’s fleet this year — to be converted from a military transport aircraft into an airtanker to fight wildfires.

The aircraft, known as “FROY,” is one of five C-130Hs that Coulson purchased from the Norwegian Defense Materiel Agency in late 2019. All five aircraft were stored together at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona; this is where Coulson quietly began heavy maintenance on “FROY” roughly two months ago to prepare the aircraft to fly. The company on March 7 said maintenance on the aircraft was still ongoing in the U.S.

C-130H “FROY,” which will become Coulson’s Tanker 133. Coulson Aviation Photo

As part of the airtanker conversion process, “FROY” will receive Coulson’s proprietary RADS-XXL roll-on roll-off tanking system. RADS stands for “Retardant Aerial Delivery System,” and the tank can be “installed on virtually any C-130,” the company said. With the RADS-XXL, the C-130 is capable of carrying 4,000 US gallons (or 36,000 pounds) of retardant.

The aircraft will also receive a significant avionics upgrade, as the military avionics are outdated and are only partially useful in a commercial environment, the company said.

According to Britt Coulson, the company’s CEO, the tank heavy structures installation will take place in Port Alberni.

Coulson anticipates that “FROY” will be ready to enter service in mid-2023, and will be identified as Tanker 133.

Tanker 132 is in Western Australia on a four-year firefighting contract. Coulson Aviation Photo

In December 2020, the first of the five ex-Royal Norwegian Air Force C-130s – Tanker 132 — was brought online by Coulson. That aircraft, known as “TY,” headed to Australia from Port Alberni for its first mission to provide aerial firefighting assistance.

Two years later, in December 2022, Coulson shared that it was awarded a four-year firefighting contract with the Western Australia government, which Tanker 132 would take on. “TY” made the trip from the U.S. to Australia before the end of the year, and is now supporting fire suppression efforts from its base in Busselton.

“Western Australia is like a second home for this aircraft,” said Britt Coulson. “It was the first place the airplane fought fire after we converted it, and we’re pleased to see it return to its proving grounds.”

• Coulson Aviation Photo
• Tanker 132 “TY” during its overhaul and conversion process in June 2020. Coulson Aviation Photo
• Coulson Aviation Photo
• Tanker 132 “TY” during its overhaul and conversion process in June 2020. Coulson Aviation Photo

Tanker 132 “TY” during its overhaul and conversion process in June 2020. Coulson Aviation Photo

In an email to Skies, Britt Coulson shared that another C-130 from the ex-Norwegian Air Force fleet, known as “BALDER,” will be joining “FROY” during the week of March 13 to undergo airtanker conversions.

A fourth C-130, “BRAGE,” is currently located in Port Alberni, “and is being used for engineering for our new, upgraded RADS-XXL tank and avionics modifications,” he added.

[Airband]

Experts worry about Canadian water bomber expertise with rising demand, aging fleets

Thu June 8, 2023 - The Canadian Press
By Stéphane Blais

Quote

“these are planes that we produced and we can’t repair them? What happened there? Where has the expertise gone in the meantime?”

MONTREAL - Aviation experts say Canada is losing expertise in the manufacturing of water bombers — just as demand for them is increasing.

The Canadair CL-415, a purpose-built water bomber, was last produced in 2015. That plane and its predecessor — the CL-215 — are the only water bombers used in Quebec and play major roles in the fleets of other provinces.

On Monday, water bombers from Montana were deployed in Quebec to support the province’s firefighters and its fleet of 14 CL-415s and CL-215s. Quebec is experiencing its worst fire season on record, following a record fire season in Nova Scotia.

Emergency Preparedness Minister Bill Blair told a news conference earlier this week that the provinces have enough equipment to fight the fires that are raging in several parts of the country. If necessary, he said, Ottawa would try to acquire additional equipment from other countries.

“But we have to know where (the equipment) is and how we can access it very quickly,” he said.

But finding planes quickly may be complicated because other countries are also fighting fires, said John Gradek, coordinator of McGill University’s aviation management program.

“The northern hemisphere is in the fire season,” he said in an interview. “We’ll be hard-pressed to find a country that can lend us planes.”

Gradek said he believes the provinces should have bought more tanker planes. “In Canada, we have 55 Canadair planes — a combination of CL-215s and CL-415s,” he said, adding that “considering the number of fires currently in the country, it’s absolutely insufficient.”

Some of those planes were built 50 years ago, he said.

“We don’t build these planes in Canada anymore … we try to modify, to maintain and update the components of these planes,” he said.

Quebec Premier François Legault alluded to the maintenance challenges during a news conference earlier this week, standing in front of a CL-215 that was grounded for repairs.

“When we see a CL-215 that we can’t use because of maintenance issues, you have to ask yourself, do we need more mechanics? The answer is probably yes. Do we need to buy some additional new planes? I think that’s more the way we have to look at it,” he said.

In 2016, Bombardier, which acquired Canadair in the 1980s, sold its water bomber program to British Columbia-based Viking Air.

Viking Air, which plans to build a factory in Western Canada, could begin producing new water bombers in 2027, but those planes probably won’t be used to put out forest fires in Canada, Gradek said.

“The company will have the capacity to build 10 planes a year,” he said, adding that the first 25 are already intended for Indonesia, France, Spain and other European countries,

He said that if a Canadian province ordered a new CL-415, construction on it wouldn’t likely begin before 2030.

“Europeans want the new generation of the Canadair CL-415 and are ready to make major purchases,” he said, adding that the first generation of the plane was recognized for its performance around the world.

If the 2023 fire season is an indicator of what’s to come, countries will increasingly need this type of plane.

He said he would like to see the federal government support Viking Air, “not only so that it can start producing the CL-415, but also to increase the planned production capacity.”

Mehran Ebrahimi, director of the International Aeronautics and Civil Aviation Observatory at Université du Québec à Montréal, said he worries expertise is being lost, particularly in Quebec, since Bombardier ended production of Canadair water bombers.

“We’ve seen the effects of climate change around the world, so we could have put ourselves in a position not only to produce but also to strategically maintain and preserve our ability to build these aircraft, which require special expertise,” said the management professor.

Referring to the CL-215, Ebrahimi said, “these are planes that we produced and we can’t repair them? What happened there? Where has the expertise gone in the meantime?”

[J.O.]

Maybe they need to look beyond the CL415 / 515. It's a great machine and extremely capable, but it is an expensive way to deliver water when compared to the Air Tractor FireBoss. The new CL515 will carry up to 7,000 litres, while the FireBoss carries between 1800 and 3000 litres depending on fuel load and density altitude. You can buy at least 10 copies of the FireBoss for the price of 1 CL515 ($2.3 million vs. $30 million USD).The waiting list for the FireBoss is about 30 months. As the article says, for the 515 it's at least 7 years.

[Malcolm]

Hawaii Martin Mars: Famed water bomber prepares for final flight

By Amy Judd  Global News

Posted March 28, 2024 2:34 pm

A piece of B.C.’s aviation history will soon have a new home.

The Hawaii Martin Mars water bomber, one of only two Martin Mars aircraft in existence, will be the centrepiece of the new B.C. wildfire aviation exhibit at the British Columbia Aviation Museum in North Saanich.

“The Hawaii Martin Mars water bomber is a proud symbol of B.C.’s ingenuity and innovation, representing cutting-edge technology in aviation firefighting of its time,” said Lana Popham, minister of tourism, arts, culture and sport.

“We recognize the value the Hawaii Martin Mars water bomber holds for many people and have heard their desire to have it housed in the British Columbia Aviation Museum, where it can be displayed and protected as an important piece of our province’s history.”

The daily email you need for Calgary's top news stories.

The Hawaii Martin Mars was last deployed during the summer of 2015 to extinguish wildfires in B.C., Alberta, California and Mexico.

Previously it was a transport carrier for the United States navy and served as the largest air ambulance during the Korean War.

The B.C. government is providing $250,000 in one-time funding to the museum.

 

1:40Happy Retirement: Water bomber and its captain make final flight

The water bomber’s final flight from Coulson Aviation Tanker Base in Port Alberni to Victoria International Airport is expected before the end of 2024 and will include passing federal inspections, crew training and test flights.

The Hawaii Martin Mars can only land and take off on water so its last flight will be from Sproat Lake to the Saanich Inlet beside the Victoria International Airport.

The final stage will take place at Canadian Coast Guard Base Patricia Bay when the aircraft will be brought up on a ramp, mounted on a trailer and transported across the airport runways.

[Kip Powick]

 

[Malcolm]

Air Spray Airtankers has the largest fleet of Lockheed L-188 Electra's in the world! They specialize in aerial firefighting and are based in Edmonton, Alberta.

I had the privilege to catch these iconic aircraft in action as the airline prepares for the very busy wildfire season ahead. The airline's main hub is in Red Deer (YQF), Alberta.

I will be posting my video of these iconic aircraft very shortly, which I am very excited about!

 

 

 

 

 

All reactions:

447Glenn Thomas and 446 others

 

[Malcolm]

Female Electra airtanker pilots share experiences fighting wildfires in Western Canada

BY DAYNA FEDY-MACDONALD | MARCH 10, 2023

Estimated reading time  11 minutes, 57 seconds.

Pilots Kim McCully and Cristalle Fairbank didn’t get into aviation by following in the footsteps of a family member, like many do. Instead, they both ended up at the flight controls by matters of fate; now, they work together at Red Deer, Alberta-based Air Spray helping to control wildfires in Western Canada. In fact, McCully and Fairbank flew as an all-female airtanker team in an Air Spray Lockheed L188 Electra during the 2022 fire season.

“I love the thrill of it… getting in and blasting off into the air,” said Fairbank, who is a captain on the Electra. “To have found a career where you can actually help people at the same time… there’s nothing better. And we get to work with some pretty great people.”

“Most times when we go out, we are actually making an impact — helping, or at least seeing if we can help, with a fire,” added McCully. “It’s nice to feel useful.”

Cristalle Fairbank (left) and Kim McCully (right) flew as an all-female airtanker team in the Electra during the 2022 fire season. Photo courtesy of Cristalle Fairbank

This year is significant for McCully, as she’ll be upgrading to captain.

Training has already begun to prepare for the 2023 fire season, which typically starts in April and fizzles out in late October. For McCully, the typical pre-fire season training looks a little different.

“I have two weeks of ground school, which we currently are doing online. After that, I will do about a week-and-a-half in the simulator, then eight hours in the aircraft, then a flight test, and then I’ll be ready to go for the season,” she explained.  

Air Spray operates a fleet of L188 Electras, Twin Commander 690 and Commander 1000 birddogs, and the BAE 146 airtanker, among other aircraft. (The company also operates CL-215 and CL-415 scoopers on behalf of the Manitoba government, and has brought CL-215Ts into Alberta.) Every spring, the Electra and birddog pilots are assigned a contract where they are placed with an aircraft and a group — operating in either Alberta, British Columbia, or Yukon. The majority of the contracts are 123 days, with one 90-day contract, and the locations can change based on fire hazards, explained Fairbank.

This year, Fairbank won’t be assigned a specific contract, as she’s part of what is called the “relief crew.”

Fairbank (left) is a captain on the Electra. This year, McCully (right) is upgrading to captain at Air Spray. Photo courtesy of Cristalle Fairbank

“Essentially, we give other pilots days off,” she said. “So, we’ll be going to B.C., Alberta, and Yukon, spelling people off for five days at a time. We then get a travel day and go to a different location for five more days.”

McCully, on the other hand, is to be based in Prince George, B.C., this summer “with one of our captains who trains the new captains. . . . But who knows, there could be some type of scenario that ends up with Cristalle and I paired together again,” she said.

From the Field

Fire control missions for Air Spray pilots vary depending on where they’re based. In the southern regions of Alberta or B.C., most flights are fairly short due to the nature of where fires typically start in those areas. Whereas with aircraft that are based further north, in locations like Fort McMurray or Prince George, crews “can fly for over an hour to even get to a fire,” said McCully.

“Some fires you get called out to are really small, and those would be initial attack sort of scenarios where your goal is to surround the fire and even potentially put it out,” she added. “Then there are the fires that are quite large and make the news; those fires are more of a longevity mission, so that ground firefighters can get in and do the work that they need to do. We might fly back to a fire multiple times in one day, or work on it for weeks.”

Photo courtesy of Cristalle Fairbank

Fairbank recalled the 2017 fire season in B.C., which became one of the province’s worst wildfire seasons on record. Between April and November, over 1,300 fires burned more than 1.2 million hectares. The province declared a wildfire-related state of emergency for the first time in 14 years.

“Many communities were really affected by it, so it was amazing to see all the ground firefighters, the whole province, the military… everyone was out in full force,” said Fairbank.

Adding to the already challenging task of fire suppression is the fact that Western Canada is known for having extreme, mountainous terrain.

McCully said the most challenging environment she’s flown in was the Castlegar, B.C., area.

“It’s the most mountainous area that I’ve ever flown in,” she noted. “The captain that I was paired with was [Air Spray’s] former chief pilot, Neal Fix. I have to say, he was one of the best people that I could have been paired with because he knew the area so well. He was able to teach me the terrain, how to maneuver the airplane, and the dos and don’ts of operating in that kind of region.”

From left: Janet Austin, Lieutenant Governor of British Columbia; Kim McCully; Dan Purcell, air attack officer; and Neal Fix. Photo courtesy of Kim McCully

This year, after 38 years with Air Spray, Fix announced he is retiring from the company.

Time for Change

Today, McCully and Fairbank remain two of three female airtanker pilots at Air Spray. The pair say that while their experience at Air Spray has been quite positive, there is still work to be done to eradicate gender bias in aviation – and encourage more women to join the industry.

“Cristalle and I have talked about the gender imbalance a lot, and it’s really frustrating,” McCully told Skies. “It’s 2023. . . . No one raises an eyebrow if you get a male nurse, and many people often prefer to have a female doctor; why can’t it be the same with pilots?”

McCully shared a story where she experienced gender bias as a pilot, which she said has stuck with her through her aviation career.

“I was working for the UN flying in Africa, and I was on an all-female crew. We had a female engineer, a female flight attendant, a female captain, and I was the co-pilot. We landed on a gravel strip in the middle of nowhere to pick up army personnel, and the General kept asking where the man was. . . . He didn’t understand that women could operate machinery or fly airplanes because he’d never seen it before.

“He ultimately realized that his only way out was getting on that plane with an all-female crew. But you could tell when he was boarding the plane that he was genuinely scared.”

Fairbank at the controls of an Air Spray Lockheed Electra, with wildfire smoke seen in the distance. Photo courtesy of Cristalle Fairbank

Fairbank said she’s hopeful for a world where “it’s normal to have females up front [in an aircraft].”

She added: “In the winter, I volunteer and fly for Angel Flight, and almost every flight there is someone who is surprised that I’m a pilot — or I get the comment, ‘I’ve never flown with a female pilot before.’ I look forward to the day when it’s not a special thing.”

Another common experience for women in aviation is that they are often assumed to be flight attendants. McCully and Fairbank want to see that change, especially for the next generation of aviators.

“Some of my best friends are flight attendants, but I just wish that wasn’t people’s first reaction,” shared McCully. “I think for little girls, it shouldn’t be their first reaction either. They should want to be up front in the cockpit — in charge and planning their own adventure.”

 

[Malcolm]

 

[Falken]

Was that not a Buffalo plane in the back ground - I thought they also are running some electras.

[Malcolm]

33 minutes ago, Falken said:

Was that not a Buffalo plane in the back ground - I thought they also are running some electras.

https://buffaloairways.com/fire-suppression/#:~:text=Buffalo Airways operates,3 Orion (N922AU).