Boeing Warns Of Engine Icing Risk On 747-8S & 787S With Genx Engines

[Mitch Cronin]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/23/airlines-boeing-idUKL4N0J805W20131123?feedType=RSS&feedName=rbssFinancialServicesAndRealEstateNews

By Alwyn Scott and Hideyuki Sano

Nov 23 (Reuters) - Boeing advised airlines on Friday about a risk of engine icing problems on its new 747-8 and 787 Dreamliner planes with engines made by General Electric, urging 15 carriers to avoid flying them near high-level thunderstorms.

The warning led Japan Airlines to pull 787 Dreamliners from two international routes. Other affected airlines include Lufthansa, United Airlines, an arm of United Continental Holdings and Cathay Pacific Airlines .

"Boeing and JAL share a commitment to the safety of passengers and crews on board our airplanes. We respect JAL's decision to suspend some 787 service on specific routes," a Boeing spokesman said.

The move followed six incidents from April to November involving five 747-8s and one 787 when aircraft powered by GE's GEnx engines suffered temporary loss of thrust while flying at high altitude.

The problem was caused by a build-up of ice crystals, intially just behind the front fan, which ran through the engine, said a GE spokesman, adding that all of the aircraft landed at their planned destinations safely.

Boeing on Friday issued a notice prohibiting the affected aircraft from flying at high attitude within 50 nautical miles of thunderstorms that may contain ice crystals.

Japan Airlines said on Saturday it will replace Dreamliners on its Tokyo-Delhi and Tokyo-Singapore flights with other types of aircraft while also dropping a plan to use 787s for its Tokyo-Sydney route from December.

JAL will continue to fly 787s for other international and domestic routes, which are unlikely to be affected by cumulonimbus cloud for the time being, a company spokesman said.

"The aviation industry is experiencing a growing number of ice-crystal icing encounters in recent years as the population of large commercial airliners has grown, particularly in tropical regions of the world," the GE spokesman said.

GE and Boeing are working on software modifications to the engine control system, which they hope will eliminate the problems, he added.

All 747-8s are powered by GEnx engines while 787s are powered either by GE's engines or the rival Trent 1000 made by Rolls-Royce Plc. (Reporting by Tim Kelly and Hideyuki Sano; Editing by Greg Mahlich)

[J.O.]

It just keeps getting better and better for the folks in Everett. Maybe time to buy some Airbus shares.

[mrlupin]

It just keeps getting better and better for the folks in Everett. Maybe time to buy some Airbus shares.

Actually, a wonderfull GE product is at fault. The folks flying RR are still flying...

AC bought the GEs....

[J.O.]

Yes, but the headline says Boeing. The place is in disarray and badly in need of a shakeup in senior management. They blame every problem on vendors and take no responsibility for anything. Ask someone who was at the recent operators conference. It was an embarrassment.

[mrlupin]

Yes, but the headline says Boeing. The place is in disarray and badly in need of a shakeup in senior management. They blame every problem on vendors and take no responsibility for anything. Ask someone who was at the recent operators conference. It was an embarrassment.

I understand J.O.,

I have been going through some B787 training. While Boeing leads the orchestra, lets just say that some of the instrument sections have done a less than stellar job. Everything looks as if the engineering departments were working in silos... The decision to do away with the bleeds also resulted in so much power having to be generated that one has to wonder if any efficiencies were made there. The Aircraft can produce 1.45 MW(or 1.0 if you exlude the APU), as much as some small conventional power plants.... If one were to produce that much energy, you would need in the neighborhood of 1900hp (or 1400HP excluding APU). That power is still taken from the engine.

As far as numbers go, when Boeing claims 20 percent efficiency claim, that is when compared to a B767. Not exactly an next gen aircraft... Compare it with a A330 or a B777-200 and you would get more honest numbers.

[Mitch Cronin]

....leading me to wonder if, when you include all the other downsides of operating such a new type - which would now have to include the somewhat stifling and awkward need to treat APU starts as a whole new kettle of fish -- greater cost in ground handling and maintenance - ... will there be any net "efficiency" (bottom line dollar) gain at all?

[Seeker]

....leading me to wonder if, when you include all the other downsides of operating such a new type - which would now have to include the somewhat stifling and awkward need to treat APU starts as a whole new kettle of fish -- greater cost in ground handling and maintenance - ... will there be any net "efficiency" (bottom line dollar) gain at all?

This is the way the world has gone. Take a look at electric vehicles, "no green house gases!" is the part people focus on but that's not the whole story.

Electric Cars Actually Dirtier Than Gasoline Cars?

Electric vehicles are not as clean as they are touted to be, according to a peer-reviewed article published in the IEEE Spectrum.

Unclean at Any Speed says despite sweeping public opinion and the billions of dollars in subsidies granted to EV makers, the energy intensive materials used in manufacturing electric cars, as well as the life-cycle and disposal of the batteries, negate EV’s environmental benefits.

Author Ozzie Zehner, a visiting scholar at the University of California, Berkeley, cites investigations from the National Academies and explains that because EV batteries are so heavy, manufacturers use lightweight materials like carbon and aluminum that are highly energy intensive to produce and process. The magnets in the motors of some EVs contain rare earth metals that are supplied by very few, including China, which has been trying to restrict their export, making them uneconomical.

Zehner cites an MIT study that notes that lithium, copper and zinc used in the batteries are extracted in ways that are energy intensive and harmful to the earth. People living in regions where these compounds are extracted are at risk of exposure to toxic groundwater contamination and air pollution. Batteries can also be hazardous if not properly disposed of at the end of their life-cycle.

The comprehensive National Academies study of the environmental effects of EVs was sponsored by Congress, unlike other studies touting EVs that tend to be sponsored byautomotive companies, Zehner says.

Zehner, a former EV enthusiast, says shifting from gasoline-based cars to EVs is just like changing the brand of cigarettes you smoke. He also cites investigations from the University of Tennessee and Norway that focused on the life-cycle impact of EVs and found that they perform worse or on par with gasoline-fueled cars.

He recommends shifting electric car subsidies to more robust options backed by research, including emissions testing, bicycle infrastructure, smog reduction initiatives and land-use changes.

[DEFCON]

The truth is; people are dirty. The more there are, the dirtier the world will become...regardless.