More Background on YTR X-BCmd

[Kip Powick]

I probably missed it but I went back a few pages and can't find the thread on COLONEL mr. WILLIAMS...........anyhow this link is an interestiung bit about his background.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/colonel-russell-williams-the-making-of-a-mystery-man/article1537412/

[blues deville]

I guess serial killers can exist anywhere. I always thought the military in Canada was a small community. Someone close to him must have known about his activities.

His Ottawa lawyer has a record of only taking cases that he can win. Hard to believe this could ever happen based on today's news.

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100429/100429_williams/20100429/?hub=CP24Home

bd

[Kip Powick]

He certainly was a busy pervert...and he must have been a "talented" pervert to get through this many B and Es etc.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/803220--the-frantic-life-of-col-david-russell-williams?bn=1

[Kip Powick]

This guy was just plain creepy........a real hidden sicko

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/805300--accused-colonel-kept-tabs-on-police-probe?bn=1

[thinair]

What are doing up so late Kip? (Just kidding) We used to say never trust a man who wears his wedge too close to his nose.

He should have shot himself at his desk like any good officer would when they fail miserably and cause their subordinates to die.

He should be hung in the town square by the balls. Why do we keep these people alive?

I know what I would feel like doing if it was my daughter.

[Fido]

.....He should be hung in the town square by the balls. Why do we keep these people alive?

I know what I would feel like doing if it was my daughter.

Yah, we don't need anymore investigation the media have convicted him enough. Just string him up today.

[thinair]

Yah, we don't need anymore investigation the media have convicted him enough. Just string him up today.

Absolutly!

Sooo you think he may be innocent?

Criminals have way too many rights, and returning to more draconian methods is the only way I can think of to stem the wave of human perversion in our world.

The legal system is proving not very effective at punishing people.

Do some research on modern human trafficking.

[J.O.]

You are assuming that someone like Bernardo (or possibly Williams) will view harsher punishment as a deterrent in the same way that a "normal" person would do. It simply isn't so. The mind that would commit so many unspeakable acts is not a mind that thinks like you and I. Consequences are not a part of their mind's equation. Offing their head in the town square may help you and I feel better, but it will not deter the next Paul Bernardo from committing an act that normal folks would consider abhorrent. They still spill lots of blood in places like Saudi Arabia as punishment, but people continue to commit all kinds of terrible crimes there too.

I understand your emotion, but don't pretend it will stop the next one. It won't.

[Moon The Loon]

1. Criminals have way too many rights, and returning to more draconian methods is the only way I can think of to stem the wave of human perversion in our world.

2. The legal system is proving not very effective at punishing people.

3. Do some research on modern human trafficking.

I don't speak for Fido but I think this is what he was getting at. I will address 2. first - Our legal system is not designed to simply punish people. It has a three fold goal, the least of which is to punish. First, it has to protect society by removing criminals from the population. It has a hit and miss record in this regard given the number of recently overturned convictions and its reliance on plea bargaining to prevent cases from ever getting to court. So right away, the primary goal is compromised.

Second, it is supposed to prevent recidivism through rehabilitation. This is a noble goal but when you get to institutions of medium or higher security, full rehab is rare; recidivism is high. So they revert to goal number one above - the protection of society by keeping "them" locked up for a term.

The third goal is that of punishment. The "eye for an eye" argument. Retribution is a double-edged sword. The philosophy behind punishment/retribution is that the criminal learns from it and it makes the rest of us feel better. In fact, it does neither. Lotsa studies to back that up. Our Christian tradition teaches forgiveness and that punishment is best left to those (Him?) with the true moral authority to inflict it. A great cinematic illustration of all of the above is in The Green Mile. If you haven't watched it recently, take another look. It really sums up the human condition.

There it is. The trouble with all three goals is how they are compromised by mental illness, behavioural difficulties that may have started in the crib, poorly enacted laws, incompetence within the legal system (from cops to jurors to lawyers and judges - after all, they're people too, with their own failings) and inept politicians who react to mob rule with unfair and/or unenforceable laws.

So. Back to your #2, punishment is the least of the reasons for Fido's comments, in my opinion.

Your point 1: Yeah, maybe that's true. But why is that? Our western system of jurisprudence is a living, evolving entity. Rights for the accused have developed because of past abuses. The examples are many. I don't want to take away those rights. It's not fair to those who suffered in the past because of overzealousness of past practices of our system. Google Sacco and Vanzetti for an historic example.

Too much human perversion in the world? There certainly is. Stopping it? Impossible. Absolutely impossible. All that can be done is to control it. That's what laws are for. That's what justice systems are for. Nothing is perfect. You can't get them all. The Medusa effect rules: cut off one and many take its place.

Your point 3. Irrelevant in the present context.

*********************************

However, I agree with you wholeheartedly that not only is there no doubt in anyone's mind that this guy did what he's accused of. Until he 'fessed up after the traffic stop, the police had nothing. He has given them knowledge of things the likes of which they probably never would have discovered. Yup, he should have taken his service weapon and done the honourable thing.

Sorry for having sounded preachy. It is only a discussion. These are my opinions! And we all know about opinions

[Fido]

Nicely said Moon.

Is the guy guilty?

Probably, but let the process run its course. When I see or hear comments such as let me pull the trigger I can only think of old western movies and vigilantes outside the jail house.

Not something that I see as right.

Even if the guy is found innocent his life is destroyed just as anyone who is innocent and might be falsely accused of pedophilia. There is no way for the justice system to bring back the dead but we should have something more than just revenge.

The media and the Internet only see things in black and white. Justice has to also weigh on shades of grey.

[stevenorr]

Interesting "Moon the Loon" but it still does not answer the question of how does society answer for the victims who seem to be lost in the law of always "protect the rights of the perpetrator?" It would be very difficult for me to contain emotion if it were my daughter or son or any family member that was a victim and then discarded by the "System of Justice?".

[J.O.]

Victims deserve the right to see the perpetrator come to justice, but even when "real" retribution is handed out, it rarely does much to help a victim of a violent crime in moving past the damage done. Only time, unconditional love from family and friends, and some serious counselling can begin to heal their wounds.

[Moon The Loon]

Interesting "Moon the Loon" but it still does not answer the question of how does society answer for the victims who seem to be lost in the law of always "protect the rights of the perpetrator?" It would be very difficult for me to contain emotion if it were my daughter or son or any family member that was a victim and then discarded by the "System of Justice?".

I understand that feeling Steve, oh too well. It's coming up to 40 years ago my brother was run down and killed by a drunk driver. The pain never goes away.

What else can you do? This is one of the prices of living in a society. What else can you do? I mean, just over a hundred years ago, "justice" was hanging somebody by the equivalent of summary conviction for stealing a horse. The modern day equivalent of that would be for someone who steals your car.

I don't know the answers. But vigilante justice is definitely not one of my options.

[thinair]

Thankyou for all the rational responses, you people are much more eloquent than I. Really, I am much more rational and tactful in person, but I do tend to see things fairly black and white...to my own fault. I post mainly from emotion(again another fault) and as one with young children at home I am really getting tired of reading about pedophiles, child pornography and other such characters in the newspaper and other media these days.

If something like this were to happen to my children, would I become a vigilante? Yes in my own mind I imagine its what I'd do( I never want to find out).

Would I be a better person for it? Absolutly Not!

Thanks for the balance.