Mitch Cronin Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Ralph is only telling it like it is... don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message. You may not want to hear it, but he's right... so why not find a better leader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Mitch,,, Don't you know that anyone they find that would be acceptable to the East, would automatically make him/her unacceptable to the West? That makes it a rhetorical leadership race Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fester Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Ralph for PM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yul07 Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Ralph time to learn french, your country needs you. My bet we will be exactly where we were after the election as we were before. Except some of the knee dippers will lose their seats to the libs and some of the libs will lose their seats to the block and a few to the cons in Ont. Alberta is a crap-shoot for the few libs there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Ralph time to learn french, your country needs you. My bet we will be exactly where we were after the election as we were before. Except some of the knee dippers will lose their seats to the libs and some of the libs will lose their seats to the block and a few to the cons in Ont. Alberta is a crap-shoot for the few libs there. Ah but if you believe the press, the new leader of the PQ is confident a new referendum will result in Quebec pulling out of Canada and then Ralph will not have to learn French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 Ah but if you believe the press, the new leader of the PQ is confident a new referendum will result in Quebec pulling out of Canada and then Ralph will not have to learn French Do you really need to finish that sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Seems that most voters in the EAST do believe the press (Conservative Hidden Agenda)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Seems that most voters in the EAST do believe the press (Conservative Hidden Agenda)... Unproven hidden agenda...or...proven thieves. It appears many in Ontario would rather associate with thieves which speaks volumes of their moral and ethical values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Unproven hidden agenda...or...proven thieves. It appears many in Ontario would rather associate with thieves which speaks volumes of their moral and ethical values. It is still quite amazing to me, and appalling at the same time. How on earth can voters (particularily out east) reward corruption ? ? ? To me it really does not matter who leads the Conservatives, it is high time for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FA_AC Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 It appears many in Ontario would rather associate with thieves which speaks volumes of their moral and ethical values. I'm concerned about the moral and ethical values of a party leader who thought that we ought to have joined GWB in the invasion of Iraq he launched based on a pack of lies. No thanks, Stephen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I'm concerned about the moral and ethical values of a party leader who thought that we ought to have joined GWB in the invasion of Iraq he launched based on a pack of lies. No thanks, Stephen. I don't think there is any doubt that the GWB invasion of Iraq would have been a colossal mistake. But, how easy is it to sit here, in hindsight, and say so. At the time, I fully supported the GWB decision as many other Canadians did. We believed the evidence which was eventually proved to be misleading and somewhat fabricated. So, I ask you. Is that the reason you would rather associate with thieves? …because the Conservative leader and party reacted to support a war by false information? They made a mistake like I did and were fooled by false evidence. Have you ever been fooled? Big difference with being fooled to do something wrong and doing what you know is wrong. Of course I’m assuming you were taught that stealing was wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I take it that many of you missed the CBC production entitled the "Mulroney tapes". Finding an honest politician is akin to finding a virgin working in a whorehouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I take it that many of you missed the CBC production entitled the "Mulroney tapes". Finding an honest politician is akin to finding a virgin working in a whorehouse. Suggested to be guilty by the CBC, proven not guilty in the courts. The Liberals were caught and proven to have their hands in our pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Actually the production "suggested" nothing, it just proved how dirty all politicians are...doesn't matter what camp they come from. If you think the Consv have never been involved in any underhanded dealings you are not living in the real world. The big difference, this time, was that the government in power got caught and are being publically flogged...sooner or later it would have happened to whoever had the "power". So where does that leave us??? I guess that is a personal decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starman Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I can see it now. The backlash in Quebec against the sponsorship scandal will give the PQ a landslide in the next election and the separatists will also win the referendum to follow. The First Lady of the newly independant Quebec will be a man. The west will start a process of separation from Ontario to avoid complete domination by Toronto and the maritimes will start floating away into the Atlantic. The Danish government will use the smokescreen to invade Hans Island, but after a weekend spent on a cold pile of rocks, the soldiers will dessert en masse to take a Caribbean Cruise. George W. will use the excuse of global instability and national security to invade Alberta for the tar sands, and this will galvanize Canadian resolve like nothing since the War of 1812. Every hockey player in the land from Newfoundland to the Wet Coast will sign up for the army and even the big lads from La Belle Province will rush to the recruitment offices to fight for a land they had forgotten long ago. We'll win, of course, because no one hunts in the snow better than a Canadian, even if his rifles are all registered on a government data base at the cost of $2 billion dollars. Canadians of all origins, Quebecois, immigrant, aboriginals, visible minorities, non-visible minorities, and physically challenged, will fight side by side, singing "mon pays c'est ne pas un pays; c'est l'hiver!", and the first guy over the top who shouts "I'm fighting for our cultural mosaic!" gets hit by friendly fire. We fight for Canada and we send the surfer dudes back across the 49th on the run, with, of course, an apology for any casualties or hurt feelings inflicted. The mentally challenged will remain where they normally hang out; Ottawa. In the end, we might end up with the country our forefathers envisioned when they came to our shores with nothing but a resolve for a better life for themselves and their children through hard work and the level playing field of an unending horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Actually the production "suggested" nothing, it just proved how dirty all politicians are...doesn't matter what camp they come from. If you think the Consv have never been involved in any underhanded dealings you are not living in the real world. The big difference, this time, was that the government in power got caught and are being publically flogged...sooner or later it would have happened to whoever had the "power". So where does that leave us??? I guess that is a personal decision. Guess where we differ Kip is that I believe in proof, rather than innuendo. The proof against the Federal Liberals is there, the proof against the Federal Conservatives is not there and of course folks are forgetting or chosing to forget that the current Conservative party is very different from the one that held power over a decade ago. Never was one to damn all because of one......... but the Federal Liberals have been proven to have a "moral deficite" and I am not convinced that anything has changed so I am more than willing to give the Federal Conservatives a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 Right on Starman! Vive le Canada! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FA_AC Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 So, I ask you. Is that the reason you would rather associate with thieves? …because the Conservative leader and party reacted to support a war by false information? They made a mistake like I did and were fooled by false evidence. Have you ever been fooled? Big difference with being fooled to do something wrong and doing what you know is wrong. Of course I’m assuming you were taught that stealing was wrong! Associate with what thieves? If Alfanso Gagliano or any of that gang still had their positions in government, I don't think that the Liberal Party would get a single vote in the next election. They certainly wouldn't get mine. It's going too far to call every last Liberal staffer a thief because of the actions of a dozen or so (against a number of whom prosecutions are now underway). All the same, as angry as I am about what went on during adscam, I think that most of us if given the choice of misfortunes, would prefer to have suffered adscam than to be contributing to the worsening of the fiasco in Iraq--where, thanks to GWB and Blair, another 20 people are dead every time I turn around--and to have our soldiers arriving home in body bags. It was obvious to most people before Bush began his invasion, that Bush's case for war was a pile of b.s. Whether it was obvious to Harper, I don't know, but whether Harper's support for the war was based on stupidity or dishonesty, I don't want him to be PM of this country. Even if Harper made a mistake and was honestly taken in by the fabricated evidence, he hasn't exactly been honest about what his position on the war was. He supported it to the hills, but then tried to pretend during the last election campaign that he had never done so. That doesn't say much for his character. Lastly, it's quite a leap to suggest that anyone who votes for the Liberal Party lacks morals or ethics just because a few formal Liberals did very wrong. The Conservatives have a sitting MP or two who are proven liars. Does every person who votes for Rahim Jaffer lack integrity since Rahim himself does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Priceless post, Starman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Associate with what thieves? If Alfanso Gagliano or any of that gang still had their positions in government, I don't think that the Liberal Party would get a single vote in the next election. They certainly wouldn't get mine. It's going too far to call every last Liberal staffer a thief because of the actions of a dozen or so (against a number of whom prosecutions are now underway). All the same, as angry as I am about what went on during adscam, I think that most of us if given the choice of misfortunes, would prefer to have suffered adscam than to be contributing to the worsening of the fiasco in Iraq--where, thanks to GWB and Blair, another 20 people are dead every time I turn around--and to have our soldiers arriving home in body bags. It was obvious to most people before Bush began his invasion, that Bush's case for war was a pile of b.s. Whether it was obvious to Harper, I don't know, but whether Harper's support for the war was based on stupidity or dishonesty, I don't want him to be PM of this country. Even if Harper made a mistake and was honestly taken in by the fabricated evidence, he hasn't exactly been honest about what his position on the war was. He supported it to the hills, but then tried to pretend during the last election campaign that he had never done so. That doesn't say much for his character. Lastly, it's quite a leap to suggest that anyone who votes for the Liberal Party lacks morals or ethics just because a few formal Liberals did very wrong. The Conservatives have a sitting MP or two who are proven liars. Does every person who votes for Rahim Jaffer lack integrity since Rahim himself does? Blah, blah, blah, blah. By your logic we should not elect anyone as they are all the same but still you side with the Liberals. Go and sit with the thieves then. Unfortunately, the only outcome of this election will be who lives in 24 Sussex Drive! Sadly, the eventual Government will still be handcuffed being of minority rule. I really have to wonder...is there something in that Ontario water we should know about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FA_AC Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Blah, blah, blah, blah. By your logic we should not elect anyone as they are all the same but still you side with the Liberals. Go and sit with the thieves then. I really have to wonder...is there something in that Ontario water we should know about? Oh, please. Arnold Schwarzenegger is head political honcho in your state, GWB is President of the country you live in, and yet you wonder about the water where I live? You have my thinking completely wrong. I don't think for a second that all political candidates are the same, and that's why I won't be voting for Harper's party. You might want to give your own logic some thought, though. Your position is that everyone who votes Liberal lacks morals and ethics because of what a few Liberals (who no longer hold government positions) did, but that it's cool to vote for a proven liar like Rahim Jaffer because he's a Conservative. There's more than a bit of hypocrisy to that position. I'm not sure what thieves you'd have me sit with. What current Liberal MPs and/or Cabiniet Ministers do you allege to be thieves? Go and sit with the warmongers and nutbars, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadairguy Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 I don't think there is any doubt that the GWB invasion of Iraq would have been a colossal mistake. But, how easy is it to sit here, in hindsight, and say so. At the time, I fully supported the GWB decision as many other Canadians did. You don't need hindsight. Many Canadians (and others) had the foresight to see where an invasion of a sovereign country would lead. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/02/15/peaceactivists030215 http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/02/15/canrally030215 I'm not a Jean Chretien fan but he impressed me by listening to Canadians and declining GWB's invitation to invade Iraq. I'm not convinced that a Conservative or Cdn Alliance PM would have stood up to GWB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Interesting tidbit that I had forgotten. The Bloc Quebecois levelled the most personal attack at the prime minister, calling into question his own integrity. Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe pulled out an old accusation about tax changes made under Martin's watch as finance minister that saved his family shipping company more than $100 million. "What an extraordinary coincidence," Duceppe said. "This is a prime minister masquerading as a man of honesty and integrity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yul07 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 It's old hat Rattler. Those charges have been leveled against Martin before. Why should his former company have to keep their ships here and pay through the nose, when other shippers fly flags from places like Liberia.. It's just big business at work. Also pretty desperate when you have to turn to the Bloc to build your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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