dagger Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Argentina back in the schedule along with Santiago. This must be the first time in over a decade that there is same-plane scheduled service between Canada and Chile, certainly on a Canadian carrier. http://www.newswire.ca/releases/September2003/04/c7406.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 Interesting that the new US transit visa requirement is creating new business for AC. Could be a lot of opportunity in that over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Back in the old days, the majority of passengers who flew on CP to South America came from the orient. Of course the major difference between the new AC offering and that offered by CP was that CP used YVR as the origin of the South America flights thus eliminating the extra time needed to get to YYZ and then south. I wonder why AC is not using the more direct routing. They def. have the aircraft with the necessary legs to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JakeYYZ Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Wasn’t it YYZ LIM SCL EZE, twice a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I wonder if these Air Canada routes are to take over for some United routes via the Star Alliance. The South America - Europe business is a pretty big deal for the large US carriers. I heard Northwest might have to cut more than half their service to South America and Iberia will have to shut down their Miami hub because of this. How many people are going to goto the trouble of getting a US entry visa (which is almost a comical process in some countries) when they will only be there for a few hours and won't even be clearing customs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 further back than that it was yvr-mex-lim-eze-scl. They pulled out of MEX where there was a dispute with the local FA union. The service on Canadian was indeed YYZ-south and never made the money it should have as the passengers from the orient simply used the us gateways and saved the time. The marketing folks just could not accept that when you flew from HKG to carry on to south america that the extra hours to go YVR-YYZ and then south could be a problem. AC def. has the aircraft to do the west coast south and would pick up lots of passengers but perhaps the VISA issue will drive them to AC anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 I think there is more potential in the Europe and Middle East traffic. That visa issue hits a lot of those countries hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiselcharter Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 If the 'Liberal's' would allow use to go. (Lebanon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1 Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 If you look at the two G/Cs HKG YVR EZE and HKG YYZ EZE the one via Toronto is 1000 miles shorter than via Vancouver. No wonder CP never made any money on it. That makes YZ a natural hub between Asia and SAM and between Europe and SAM (helped by Homeland security) and regretably leaves YVR out of the loop as it is over 2 hours off track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 I guess my point involved the extra time / distance that the passenger had to travel. Also of course there was a stopover in YVR that further added to the hours. Just for fun, work out the total time HKG-YYZ + YYZ-SCL vs HKG-YVR + YVR-SCL. I imagine you have a better handle on it than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innuendo Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 The routing via YYZ is 188nm longer than via YVR. The fact that YYZ is the center of the universe outweighs a piddling 188nm . In fairness I would expect that marketing have better reasons than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Then if the flight is none-stop HKG-YYZ, AC does have a def. market advantage. I hope they are able to capitalize on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1 Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Europe-SAM via YZ is also much shorter than Via YVR so Ac will be able to feed the SAM flights with both Europe and Asia not to mention the 100 million Yanks that live within 500 miles of YZ who can use YZ rather than JFK or ORD or LAX to get to Asia and Europe and some SAM backhaul. The geographic location of Toronto is ideal for all of these pairs. The facilty will be second to none albiet expensive and opressive to operate in. I suggest that the YZ airport could become to the NAm (SAm Asia Europe triangle) a hub like LHR is to the Europe, (NA and Asia Africa triangle) in the next 20 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 In the Blue world, everything revolved around YVR... It was their center-of-the-universe, regardless of logic. They once paid a US think tank a lot of money (or so I was told) to come up with answers to the question of what it had to do to fix the problems.... The answers included the mention that YVR was not a good hub and should not be treated as such... nor should it be their main base.... They were promptly ignored. We had a couple real biggie flights that originated in YYZ, flights 001 and 007 that went off to Japan, but the crews all commuted from YVR. For a long time, no DC10 crews were living in Toronto... That had to be at least one of the reasons for CDN's demise.... Everything east of The Rockpile, was to them, the wrong side of the earth. I can't tell you how many times we had problems getting parts to fly out this way... We needed a gadget that we needed at least 10 times a year... YVR would have 50 of them, YYZ had zero. Now it's the same thing, but it's YWG has 50, YUL has 50, YVR might have 10, but YYZ has zero.... protectionist yo-yo's are trashing this company too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stone Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 You probably can if you have a name like they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 And here is the west we have been lead to believe that YYZ is the Center of AC's Universe...... Darn, another illusion thrashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Ah, but to YVR, even you're on the wrong side of the earth. That either comes from those who've never seen anything else, or those who once lived in YYZ and moved out. Now they see, quite rightly, the ugliness that is Toronto. Nevertheless, geography and population make it something airplanes can't avoid... but the folks who allocate parts, or their honcho's(?) don't seem to notice that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innuendo Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Malcolm, here is the site where you can get the great circle distances from airport pairs. Some of the tracks are quite interesting. http://gc.kls2.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Thank-you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Many thanks. So using this tool, it looks like: HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) YVR (49°11'42"N 123°10'55"W) 6392 mi YVR (49°11'42"N 123°10'55"W) SCL (33°23'35"S 70°47'09"W) 6533 mi Total of 12925 & Via YYZ HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) YYZ (43°40'38"N 79°37'50"W) 7810 mi YYZ (43°40'38"N 79°37'50"W) SCL (33°23'35"S 70°47'09"W) 5332 mi Total of 13142. Interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innuendo Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I selected the nautical mile measurement ergo the 188 difference I posted. These are great circle distances which would not include routings that have to cater to ATC procedures and airway routings and obviously do not do what the flight planning computers do with winds but it gives you some idea. As I said, where some of the tracks go interesting. YYZ to Delhi for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I had not realized that the HKG-YVR-SCL and the HKG-YYZ-SCL milages were so simular. Of course CP did not have the aircraft with the legs to do the HKG-YYZ trip with any usefull payload, so they connected in YVR. HKG-YVR-YYZ-SOUTH AMERICA. Thanks again for the information. rgds Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 If you put in just HKG to SCL it suggests a G/C route that goes south to OZ and then via the southern hemisphere as the shortest route. A course NRT-SCL makes a rhum [i think] that passes over Hawaii. Going to Canada is a diversion for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innuendo Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 On that site both those routes are great circle, IE the straight line over the globe between the two points. The HKG-SCL will look distorted on that map as it does not show the world as a globe. I'm guessing that they did not set up the map depictions to show the South Pole properly but if you look at YYZ-DEL or HKG-YYZ it shows the routing over the Northern hemisphere correctly. Trivia time, rhumb line, if I remember correctly a rhumb line is the track you get from holding a constant heading which is not necessarily the same as a great circle track.(Unless you are flying east/west on the equator ) As an example, great circle from LHR to YVR. You are heading almost north leaving the UK and by the time you come into YVR you are almost on a southerly heading. Found a site on rhumb line, http://baby.indstate.edu/gga/gga_cart/gebar200.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innuendo Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Sorry, looks like the site address does not work. This should. http://baby.indstate.edu/gga/gga_cart/gecar200.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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