To the Nay sayers:

Mitch Cronin · June 24, 2003

Folks, we're suffering... GE Capital has demanded lease payments on their birds, about 100 of them, and they say, I read, if they don't see any coin in the next week to 10 days they'll snatch their airplanes back... The debt is piled sky high, there's hungry competitors and creditors lurking around every corner... We're suffering... All 40,000 of us.

"Haircuts" is a stupid term I think, but we all need to take some hit to keep us afloat, unfortunately some more than others, but without accepting that hit, we're all toast! How can those of us in our 40's and older find other employment? How can even the younger ones afford to be out on the street looking for work when they'll be competing for whatever jobs might exist with the rest of the horde? I can look around at several I know, in the middle of the pack, and know without a doubt they'd be the first to get hired elsewhere... where does that leave the rest? The junior and the senior? Toast. No job, no coin... EI.

Word is that the No vote is largely prevalent among the junior-ish OAC types... You folks want that seniority? You want a career ladder to climb? You like telling your kids, or your neighbors you're an airline pilot? You like blasting off with a rush of acceleration to make fluid enable that 3rd dimension of movement? Sizzling along above the clouds at lots-of-knots, enjoying the beautiful blue sky? Bring her into the gate, shutting her down and knowing you've just completed one of the most fantastic feats mankind has ever made routine? What a job! Man, what a job! You know how many people would give their eye teeth to get paid doing it?

In fact, there's a huge pile waiting right beside you and just below you, with more youth and without the commitments you have, that'll gladly take the jobs you'd otherwise get, and probably do it for less! Don't throw it all away!

If there's any myth about getting another chance ...to discard Keller, or to improve the T/A, give that some thought for a second... If Keller can bo overturned, do you actually think it'll happen soon?! Look how long it took the other guys to turn Mitchnick around. AC doesn't have that kind of time! And the T/A is what it is because that's all that could be done! Period, Full stop! Ask your union guys, there ain't no more to be had!

Deal with your seniority issues after accepting the T/A. The opportunity will not be gone then. Whereas, it very probably will, if you don't accept it.

Vote YES, for all of our sakes. Please.

Air Canada is a landmark company that really deserves a fair shake. And her employees deserve it too.

Thanks for reading,

Mitch

June 24, 2003

Mitch,

Well said, very well said.

dagger · June 24, 2003

Mitch

Remember what I told you about the cold beer? Hold one to your forehead right now for two minutes, then pull the tab, tilt your head back, and imbibe while still cold. There is nothing you can do to change the outcome... if it goes down the crapper, you will have already done all that is possible and AC pilots will join the ranks of Eastern Machinists and PATCO controllers as examples of collective career suicides. More than likely, this saga will stumble along for a lot longer before the denouement, so please, apply that cold compress.

June 24, 2003

Well, in my opinion taking the opportunity to serve as a lightning rod for emotions and encouraging people to stand up for themselves , question the reason why, and vote no will produce the opposite result, and they will contrary to their own desire for revenge, avenge themselves on someone they can point to as standing in their way.

People will invariably act collectively on one issue or another very selfishly in terms of survival, that you can bet on.

I think it will take more than just one beer, and possibly a couple of weeks of inner torment to ride out that storm, if you choose to enter into that debate.

Jazz F/A's ratify: 86% in favour.

:[

NZ

I'm ready for that beer

June 25, 2003

Well said Mitch ! I agree with Dagger though... proceeding to imbibe lager now. Cheers !

Johnny · June 25, 2003

AC pilots will join the ranks of Eastern Machinists and PATCO controllers as examples of collective career suicides.

Please clarify that to the 'Original Air Canada Pilots' hired after 1995. I believe the real A/C pilots will be more concerned about their pension.

Thanks

June 25, 2003

I am an OAC and I voted YES. Despite the Keller award and understanding that some feel burned while others vindicated, it will all be in vain if the company doesn't survive.

The seniority issue won't end here, unless the company ends here. It is a matter of priorities, and in my opinion it is academic. There is really only one choice to make.

Mitch Cronin · June 25, 2003

Ok, beer probably doesn't mix well with rum, but I'll give it a try if you insist.

Don Hudson · June 25, 2003

Dagger;

I agree with you completely...on the staggering on, although I think the cold compress notion is a good one too!

Mitch;

The AC pilots are keenly aware of the alternatives and the potential outcomes I can assure you Mitch.

But the stars lined up and the OAC pilots are trying to take in and absorb the meaning of three huge hits, all within weeks of one another. In the time I have been in this business I have never seen a more challenging, difficult set of concurrent circumstances confronting one group of employees.

It really does take your breath away to lose almost 22% of wages, know full well that there are large reductions in jobs just like everyone else, to see big layoffs (some of the names of who is going just got changed by the order to implement the Keller Award) and now take in a very significant seniority reversal.

By contract, a reduction bid affords those being reduced the opportunity to "maintain or improve" their status and they can do so with their seniority.

However, with the Keller Award, they will be doing so with much higher seniority numbers now, bumping OAC pilots down, and even off the airplanes which many have held since before the merger.

It can get worse in only one way, Mitch, and I know that everyone knows that and is keenly aware. These issues simply have to play out, and they will.

Our Merger Committee is not saying, and never has said "vote no". They are raising a huge caution that the reality of the OAC pilots' situation may influence the vote and they are saying, keep it separate...the same message which was strongly conveyed at the Negotiation Roadshows all last week. It is at once, a positive message, (vote carefully and after all the info is in) and a caution to all of the large forces at work here.

We will not be "Eastern's Machinists". Charlie Bryant had a hate on for Lorenzo then Borman so huge that he beligerantly destroyed both his airline and his union and his member's jobs all at one time.

That is not the case here. We are fighting for our very careers under controlled, legitimate and reasoned circumstances. "Process" is the key here, not emotion. That is how it is working.

That said, I cannot predict the outcome. I can only provide reassurance that the awareness of possible outcomes is keen.

So take Dagger's advice, and await the outcome. You can't do anything to influence it or change it.

It ain't for the faint-of-heart, is it.

Back to lurking, going for long walks in the sun and playing with the kids.

Don

June 25, 2003

Another YES vote here....

Mitch Cronin · June 25, 2003

G'day Don...

You know, one day, when my hair is a bit greyer, and my teeth a bit longer, I'm gonna look back on my experiences here... and my associations with those who post here... and if I haven't had the chance to share a drink or two with you, or at least a good long chat, I'm gonna consider that one hell of a loss.

I can't feel what some of these guys are feeling, 'cause I'm not that hard hit. But I have lived through some pretty lousy situations in my many years since I decided I was big enough to take on the world at the ripe old age of 14... I know what I've got now, and as much as I might bitch about the many wrongs there are, I want to make it stick. (well, most of it anyway... I gotta find a way off midnights!) I sure hope we can all make it work somehow. Life doesn't give that many opportunities to get things right.

Cheers mate, warm regards to you, and the best of luck to us all.

Mitch

June 25, 2003

oyea Mitch, you the man........ vote yes to have a job!! vote no.....................

history.

Southshore · June 25, 2003

when the TA first came out that "I'm not sure we can endorse this" or words to that effect? If you did say this, and this all goes south, you get to wear some of this too - kinda like Bryant. If I remember your statement with any accuracy, you have a hand in planting the seeds of a mindset that says "I'm gettin' screwed so lets shut her down". I was in the YOW stoc when one of your members said this to me (not realizing I was a Jazz pilot). I'm going to give you some room on this too. You are in a tough position. This is definately not a happy time. But ACPA has suffered from a serious "lack of focus". I could put a bunch of adjectives in front of that but I'll let that go for now. You're going to disagree with that but there's no surprise there either.

It drives me nuts. "Milton has failed us. Alpa is at our backs. But ACPA can do no wrong".

ACPA better start a new line of thinking and bloody quick. Confession (which is good for the soul, I'm told) would be a good start. Ask any, and I mean ANY, other work group.

Southshore · June 25, 2003

when the TA first came out that "I'm not sure we can endorse this" or words to that effect? If you did say this, and this all goes south, you get to wear some of this too - kinda like Bryant. If I remember your statement with any accuracy, you have a hand in planting the seeds of a mindset that says "I'm gettin' screwed so lets shut her down". I was in the YOW stoc when one of your members said this to me (not realizing I was a Jazz pilot). I'm going to give you some room on this too. You are in a tough position. This is definately not a happy time. But ACPA has suffered from a serious "lack of focus". I could put a bunch of adjectives in front of that but I'll let that go for now. You're going to disagree with that but there's no surprise there either.

It drives me nuts. "Milton has failed us. Alpa is at our backs. But ACPA can do no wrong".

ACPA better start a new line of thinking and bloody quick. Confession (which is good for the soul, I'm told) would be a good start. Ask any, and I mean ANY, other work group.

June 25, 2003

Mitch,

I've posted here about the unfairness of this "Keller" list, but want to add a few thoughts. My final decision is to keep this a separate issue to the TA.

I will vote yes, even though it's painful. That is because of all the great people I've worked with over the years in all departments. (yes..even some great ex-CAIL people too!!) I couldn't do otherwise. Some will, but even they will have a fairly minimal effect. My feeling is that any ex-CAIL type that votes no needs a saliva test. So far, they've won. That only requires about 500 of the 2200 AC types to say yes. It will probably be way more than that, for similar reasons that I have stated. My guess is a total of about 65% saying yes. We'll soon see!

I'm off to SYD for a 5 day cycle in 2 days. Blue or red mix, we'll operate save, and hopefully have some fun while we're at it. It'll be my last one for a long while probably, so I'm going to enjoy it.

From your posts, you seem like a great guy. It'd be a pleasure to have a rum with you some day....maybe I'll have one right now!!

Cheers,

..and here's to a future AC that we can all live with, and work for!

Dave Rogers

June 25, 2003

Can I ask you something please, M/C... What would it take to make you vote 'no'? If the T.A. was a... say, 50% paycut... would that make you vote no? Or let's say that Mr. Rovinescu grabbed the brass ring and sent all the narrow bodies to JAZZ, over our objections of course. Would that be enough to make you vote no?

The reason I ask, and the reason I can't vote by your criteria, ("...it will all be in vain if the company doesn't survive.) is that there is no bottom to it. Should we work for 50% of our regular wages, and live to fight it out another day? Should we let all the narrow-bodies go to JAZZ, and live to fight about it another day? By your criteria, the answer is yes. No matter HOW bad the circumstances of our employment become, your criteria compels people to vote yes.

I don't accept that as a valid way to proceed, because the consequences are a self-fulfilling cycle of losses for employees. Management simply keeps lowering the wage and benefit bar, and employees keep accepting it, and "live to fight another day." Except that it's not a fight, M/C. It's capitulation.

It's not that there isn't some merit to your argument: there is, but on one condition ONLY. And that's if you buy the position that AC will absolutely, positively cease to exist if ACPA does not ratify its T.A. I put it to you that no one knows the answer to that question. I further put it to you, that there is currently about one billion dollars worth of employee money sitting on the table in front of the creditors. Yes, they could get up and walk away from that, taking pennies on their dollars. Or they just might have a look at why the T.A. failed and attempt to do something about it. Walk away; or take a look. What would you do with a billion dollars of someone else's money on the table?

I caution everyone against rashly thinking that AC will fold on failure of any given T.A. You must use your rational judgment to discern the reality! Otherwise, you can be sure that EVERY negotiation will be framed in those terms by management: "Give us what we want, or we close up shop." The possibility that they will cannot be discounted, but on the other hand if you believe it indiscriminately, you're dead.

So I advise everyone to take a very close look at what's sitting on the table, and ask themselves what kind of leverage a billion dollars has with a group of creditors that are otherwise looking at not just getting a haircut, but utterly scalped.

For what it's worth, my gut instincts tell me that the lions are very, very hungry; and that a billion dollars will buy a lot of gazelle steaks.

By the way, Max; I have no quarrel whatsoever with your choice of vote. Everyone has to do as they think best. In the end we'll all have to live with the choices we collectively make. We're all in it together, so we might as well get ready to live with that choice, be it what we wish or otherwise.

neo

June 25, 2003