Guest Jazz1 Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Not because it’s a bad deal but because the Teamsters have failed them! After speaking with a member of the negots committee I am more than a little shocked at what transpired during the CCAA concession talks. At the outset of these talks the committee and the Teamsters Chairperson decided it would be wise to lay some conditions on the company in return for concessions from the flight attendants. Some of the conditions were: 1. “Iron on the runway” as my friend put it, as in all the aircraft up to 75 seats. 2. A seat on the board of directors at Jazz. 3. Settle all outstanding grievances including paid moves, CRA per diem, lay-offs out of seniority and partial base closure to name a few. All the while the committee was bargaining assuming that the Teamsters would hold the company to these conditions. Well wouldn’t you know the last day the committee and the company got together, the company right out of the blue says that there are no guarantees. My friend says that they didn’t like the way things were going but they were under a tremendous amount of pressure, not so much from the company but from the Teamsters Chairperson. It seems he had an agenda and it wasn’t getting the best deal for the flight attendants, apparently he was getting a lot of pressure from his boss at Teamsters Canada. Now if you’re a little skeptical, just ask your Teamsters rep or negots committee member at the upcoming ratification meetings, just what happened to the ten conditions? It’s time for the Jazz flight attendants to take control, tell the Teamsters that we’re not into the numbers game they’re playing (Dues income)! Tell the company that with no commitments from them (Growth) that the cuts are just not justifiable! VOTE NO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjaer Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Maybe it is not my place but you guys almost stopped flying last week due to union infighting. Wouldn't it make more sense to save some jobs at a lower pay than to lose all of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JazzPilot Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Absolutely. Everyone is taking a hit. It' time to get on with rebuilding this company. Alot of our colleges are on or going to be on the street. Think twice if you want to join them. We're all taking a hit. Accept it and let's get on with the future. Any other route will result in the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airmail Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 So you want to end careers "not because it's a bad deal but because the Teamsters have failed them"? Wow! That's tremendous logic! The Teamsters will really hurt because you voted down the agreement! Look around you and see how many F/A jobs are being advertised. If you find them, how many are even near your wage rates and working conditions. Then, if you find them, you'd better send in your resume right away because you'll want to be at the front of that line in case your colleagues are stupid enough to follow your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Like I have mentioned before in this forum. "yes" the TA is ugly. It Has also been mentioned that this is not a time to bargain. We are all in this together, lets make the best of it. If you feel that Teamsters has failed you, then after all this is said an done at the NEXT contract negotiations are about to start, Be more active in the role say as "shop steward" Sorry, I still want my job. If you are willing to risk losing yours. Then please choose another career. If you can find one in the airline business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Yo, Jazz1.... IF YOU VOTE NO..... ................................... be prepared to lose your job. get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CJ Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I really don't think we have much of an option at this point. I want my job. To be perfectly honest I just thank God we are not represented by CUPE through all of this. I'm not going to vote no just to send the Teamsters a message. Ever heard the phrase cut off your nose to spite your face. As peanuts said, if you want to make a difference, become a shop steward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sarah Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Hello Jazz1, With all due respect, what part of CCAA do you not understand? We, the JAZZ flight attendants, are not in the drivers seat, in fact no one is! You say "It's time for the JAZZ flight attendants to take control", control of what?! Please, don't for a second think that this is a game, or that the company is crying wolf! Everyone has to give, not just the JAZZ F/A's! If you vote "No" and if you encourage others to vote No, are you willing to have the fact that the company goes down on YOUR shoulders? That is exactly where we will be should the JAZZ F/A's turn down the TA! Please, take some time to think about that! Take care, Sarah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjaer Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Jazz1, I hope that you are the minority as I hope the rest of your co-workers vote to accept. I would hate to see C3000 all over again. Here's to the day we can argue over us westjetters lowering the bar again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cabo Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 "Not because it's a bad deal but because the Teamsters have failed them!" Put everyone out of work to prove a point to the Teamsters. I'm sure we all know what you will achieve by that. I'm sure that at every negots with every union there are inside "deals" made. If you feel that strong against the Teamsters there are legitimate channels to follow to decertify them. One is not to put everyone out of a job to achieve this. By the way, I definitely am not a Teamsters supporter, just sharing a point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I'll drink to that! well... I would, if I was drinkin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jazz1 Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Sorry everyone, But if you if you believe the measly $13M in savings from the Jazz f/a's is going to sink the ship, maybe you all should consider the fact that the ACPA numbers are totally fudged and the ship will not recover unless additional concession are made at their table. A note to Jazz f/a's, currently there are about 500 of you laid-off and 300 of you will never see your job return even if Jazz gets all the aircraft up to 75 seats. Seeing that there is no resolution to the scope clause at this time these concessions will only cause more lay-offs and if ACPA wins the arbitration process these jobs also will never return. I am saying vote this down and get back to the table and have the scope issued resolved once and for all. For all of you that are saying “Do you want a job” you’re all starting to sound a little too much like management, their propaganda campaign seems to be working! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CJ Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Jazz1, if you believe we the Jazz FA's have any say in the scope issue your out of your mind. If I thought we had any chance whatsoever in securing Regional Jets to Regional routes I would be there with bells on. This unfortunately is out of our hands, the only saving grace is it may be out of ACPAs hands aswell. We will have no chance to call back our laid off FA's if we don't get out of the position the company is presently in. We don't know right now how the scope issue will be resolved, but be assured we will have nothing to say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 "... and get back to the table ..." You don't get it do you? Once the toast is made, ya jus cain't make it inta bread no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jazz1 Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 CJ, Please think outside the box here a little. No need to change ACPA’s scope clause. All that is needed is a little escape clause in our own TA that states that if the 75 seat aircraft don’t show up at Jazz the deal is off and we revert to our current CA. As you know the 75 seat aircraft won’t even come on the scene for at least another year, by that time the CCAA process should be over and the company is forced to lay on the bed they made. If you think this is such a stretch, have a look at the ALPA agreement. Mitch, never say never, as long as you have a heartbeat it’s never to late right a wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Jazz1 Why didn't the Teamsters get outside expertise to represent your interests? Perhaps your vengence should be directed in that direction? BTW, this isn't a table you get to back to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I'm wondering how you are 'privy' to any information that says "that the ACPA numbers are totally fudged and the ship will not recover unless additional concessions are made at their table"? Have you actually seen the amount of concessions that have been made in that settlement or know/understand the repercussions that will happen because of these? Doesn't appear that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sarah Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Jazz1: OK - how do you expect anyone to take you seriously? In your first post, you encourage people to vote it down because it's a Teamsters conspiracy. You say "it's not because it's a bad deal, but because Teamsters have failed them" All of a sudden, a few hours later, the issue is no longer whether there was some alleged conspiracy going on with the committee, but that it is a bad deal. So - which is it? Without the creditors approval of our plan of arrangement, which hinges on ratified agreements, we are done....DONE - got it? Negotiations are finished, and the company's creditors are the ones who ultimately have our fate in their hands. If you choose to believe that all of this is a Teamsters conspiracy, a bad deal that needs to be renegotiated, company propaganda, or some other reason you dream up, that's your choice. The committee members have worked hard to come up with a viable (albeit painful) solution, we need to act and vote rationally. If you think we can go back to the table and get a better deal, I suggest you do some research on past CCAA proceedings in this country. Sarah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 yur fkn funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Yes, he is. Did you see his post re: NZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I'm afraid that ain't quite so my friend... Certainly not in this business. In many ways, once the wrong is commited, it's there and it's effects are unstoppable. Never say never, sure, but don't doubt everything is what it appears to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southshore Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Stop breathing your own air. Not only can you not focus on ONE issue at a time , as pointed out by Sarah, you don't understand the issue you are (for the moment it seems) 'addressing'. IF you don't understand yet - here it is, in clear letters. IF ANY agreement is NOT signed, there is a good chance (which there still is anyway) that the creditors, who are going to run the real show for a while, will say - "bye- bye". Forget Teamsters, ACPA, ALPA etc - they are bit players right now. The precipice is under our toes. We will have to live to fight another day. But for the moment 'living' is the focal point. There's the old saying " Lead, follow or get out of the way" Do us a favour and do the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest givemeabreak Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Jazz1, How about this. Take your NO and leave. We can have you replaced very quickly. 2 weeks max I think to train an F/A at Jazz. Give it a rest! Where do you as an F/A get this high and mighty attitude?? Pre hire F/A credentials: - high school education (and that can be fudged) - people skills (can be faked for short periods of time) I think it is you that should step out of the box. Unlike maintenance, pilots, dispatchers, you are EASILY replaced. Face facts. If you don't like it, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jazz1 Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I am focussed on one issue. You just don't seem to get it, the 75 seat aircraft were part of this deal right up to the last day. The company yanked and the Teamsters fell flat on their faces. If, as you say the creditors are in charge now, then we are doomed already as mainliners flying the RJ equipment is still to expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CJ Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 OUCH!! BTW Do you think it takes less time to train an FA at Jazz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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