Stickle Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 From today's YUL Gazzette. I find it hard to believe that this could actually come to fruition with the number of parties that would have to agree on it. http://www.canada.com/montreal/specials/business/story.html?id=5BDDF1FA-CCE4-42F4-B497-FB6E83C6CD16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exGXer Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 With all this speculative media reporting, Rainer Bauer, Don Johnson etal @ Citadel ACPA must be just fit to be tied. I think I'll invest in some Prozac stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsplat Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 And that is that AC hasn't asked anyone with a hammer over them if they can actually do it...like TC. Jazz is still a regional carrier. I can't see a national airline of any kind regulated out of a small region like Moncton. There is, of course, the union problem. Before the Jazz folks get too lathered up, it might be worth recalling what happened to the AC-Skyservice pact. If AC is successful in merging the low-cost model, there will be one union at AC, all levels. How will it merge? There will be serious bloodshed at both operations. Either Calin and Robert truly enjoy watching their employee groups fight to the death, or they completely missed some critical elements in their panic. I think it likley the second is what we are seeing. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Dastardly Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 As I've said for a long time. There should be a middle of the road list created honouring YOS at both divisions. Once created, Mainline seniority would be accumulated regardless of the division in which one is employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Dastardly Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 As I've said for a long time. There should be a middle of the road list created honouring YOS at both divisions. Once created, Mainline seniority would be accumulated regardless of the division in which one is employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest qtip Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 AC and AC Jazz are two different airlines. For that matter the pilot groups belong to two different unions. What happens when you start work for a new company? Do you start in the middle of the pack or the bottom of the pack? We're not talking merger here are we because ACPA'S merger policy puts you on the bottom of the ACPA list if I remember. Or are we changing the rules again? Not just my opinion but the truth Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B75/76 Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 "And that is that AC hasn't asked anyone with a hammer over them if they can actually do it...like TC. Jazz is still a regional carrier. I can't see a national airline of any kind regulated out of a small region like Moncton." Do you know they haven't asked? Jazz is a 705 operation including scheduled domestic and international (U.S.) authority (I haven't looked at their AOC so am assuming.). What is preventing them from doing it? Why can they not be 'regulated' out of Moncton? Are they not efffectively 'national' now: operations are across the whole of the country. Other than adding any new types to their AOC, I don't see any big obstacles. I am not saying they will or won't (I have no idea)just that it is perhaps more possible than you are allowing for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Next you'll be talking about scope.Lets just hope we have a job and a future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 I learned that pilot's in Canada are the most cutthroat bunch. You get the impression from posts here that some would feed their young to the sharks if it meant keeping their seniority or scope clauses. You call yourselves professionals? Are you this cutthroat on the ACPA and ALPA forum's when you can't hide behind the anonimity? Just an observation from one of those unskilled overpaid rabble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 ...when you can't hide behind the anonymity... CA, astute point. On the other forums there is still a range of ideas and emotions being explored but not with the same tone as on the AEF. If fact one of the reasons I like the other forums is that by using our names - even if we don't know each other - there much less "you, sir, are an idiot', "no, idiot, you're the stupid one" sort of thing. Have you noticed some of the most reasoned responses here come from the likes of Don, Dave, Kip (he, he), Beth and a few others who don't have the need to be anonymous? Coincidence or concurrence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Dastardly Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Listen, as far as I'm concerned, I am both a member of ALPA and ACPA though I feel like I am being represented by neither. (ex CRA/CAIL) I find it highly unfortunate that when either side feels like things are going their way they go for broke. Perhaps in these times of uncertainty and ongoing negotiations, its time to strike a deal that benefits everyone. Create a list that encompasses all the contentious airplanes, RJ's 50 seat 70 seat and perhaps up to 90 seats. Recognize years of service with the airlines. Once the lists are formed, overall seniority is accumulated so that when and if a Jazz employee wants to bid to mainline, they can do so based on their years of service from the time the list was created. Respectfully, I undersand that this arrangement may not completely appease the senior boys that understandably stood their ground with regard to Picher. But considering the state of our own seniority list (AC), I think its a reasonable compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest qtip Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 All I can say is this was very long overdue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Jazz OC 2003.5.23 17:59 EST File Number: 005002 Company Region: ATLANTIC Legal Name: JAZZ AIR INC. Trade Name(s): AIR ALLIANCE AIR NOVA AIR ONTARIO AIRBC CANADIAN REGIONAL-CANADIEN RÉGIONAL AIR CANADA JAZZ Address: 310 GOUDEY DRIVE ENFIELD, NOVA SCOTIA (CANADA) B2T 1E4 Phone: (902) 873-5000 Fax: (902) 873-3897 Telex: Cellular: Internet: Float Operator: NO Dangerous Goods: YES Air Operator Certificate Status: APPROVED Preferred Language: ENGLISH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aircraft Type Max. Weight (Lbs.) Registration Mark Rule Status Work In Progress VFR OTT Night FR IFR Passenger Cargo BAE 146 90,000 705 APPROVED CL65 48,000 705 APPROVED DHC8-100/200/300/400 34,500 705 APPROVED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozerboy Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 What was overdue? ALPA finally getting back at ACPA? Well congratulations you bunch of &%$@!s you managed to screw 600 pilots and their families' who had absolutely nothing to do with your union's personal vendetta!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nigol Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 ..and ACPA wasn't trying to screw over 1400 families either were they?!! Why didn't ACPA and ALPA work together before this is beyond me, but this outcome may have been avoided if we all played nice together and shared the sandbox and the toys. IMESHO Nigol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest qtip Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Dozerboy, what do you mean screw 600 pilots? We both work for two different airlines. You chose to work for AC and I chose to work for AC Jazz. Everyone is entitled to pick their employer. Aren't they? I don't believe we fly any airplanes with a seating capacity of anything close to a 737. Not yet anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Re: AC is imaginary low cost Posted By: dozerboy Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003, at 12:09:06 PM In Response To: Re: AC is imaginary low cost (Operation Bomberclad) "AC is going bankrupt because of its pilots,". What a load of crap. It is really unfortunate to see what is happening at Jazz, many of us at mainline came from the connectors/CRA and have really fond memories of what we did there, the company and the employees that are still there. But to blame the AC pilots solely for this mess is ridiculous. Better yet why don't you come out with some definate economic figures or data as to how the pilots have done this. *******Why don't you attempt something constructive instead of just criticizing everyone at Air Canada mainline?******** And another thought on the F28. It was an old, very old and inefficient aircraft that passengers hated. The only reason that passengers under the blue system flew on it, was that in many instances if they wanted to fly blue...they had no choice. The fact that Jazz hasn't come close to 39 jet aircraft has nothing to do with the mainline pilots but with AC management. Or are you delusional that we actually have a say in what they do or for that matter that they actually give a damn what we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFA Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Dear DB, This is not about ALPA vs. ACPA, this about creating an airline that "works". GTFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFA Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 If you think it's such a good idea, rally your support and advise your MEC of your wishes. GTFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozerboy Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Touche folks, I asked for it. From one very disappointed individual!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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