Trader Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Just heard a rumour, yup only a rumour, that WJ pilots are taking about a pay raise of aprox. 30%. True? (not stirring, just asking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 It would be just rumour. The pilots have been polled by their association as to what they want for our new working conditions in January. I can't see 30% coming in wages with the price of Oil. The issues I've heard are minor, with most pilots being quite content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundeffect Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Are the junior pilots so content? profit sharing is down, the stock is down...how do the junior guys feel? I wonder..kinda tired of hearing from the 'top of the pyramid' Jus' wonderin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightlevels Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 seems to me that they would know the pay and what is guaranteed and what is not before they accept a job. So why whine within a couple years of service. Nobody forced them to take the job. I knew what my pay was going to be at all of my jobs didn't you?. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundeffect Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Yes, yes I did. That my friend is the difference...when you rely on 'profit sharing' You really do not know exactly what you will make. The first hired...the top of the pyramid, at westjet, have made a bundle...no dispute at all...honestly, do you see the future prospects for newhires being the same??Just a simple question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Just heard a rumour, yup only a rumour, that WJ pilots are taking about a pay raise of aprox. 30%. True? (not stirring, just asking) I really hope that is true. The low man on the totem pole there could sure use it. It would do the whole industry a whole lot of good to see that kind of increase, after the cuts and rollbacks seen throughout the business in the last few years. Somehow, with how things are looking at WJ and industry wide, I will believe when I see it or read about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Are the junior pilots so content? profit sharing is down, the stock is down...how do the junior guys feel? I wonder..kinda tired of hearing from the 'top of the pyramid' Jus' wonderin' I am junior, I am content. The stocks are onely low if you're selling today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjsa Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Are the junior pilots so content? profit sharing is down, the stock is down...how do the junior guys feel? That's an interesting point. I'll reply with a question. How do the junior pilots who were at Air Canada when their hard times started feel? They probably don't feel too good since they're no longer employed (by Air Canada). So what seems like a weakness in our pay system actually has some strenth in that WestJet does not have to lay off employees at the first sign of a loss (although it at least WAS a profit for Q3). Instead, we all take a hit and when things turn around, we're all still here to benefit. So my guess is that the junior guys feel pretty good, they have a good job in a growing company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 That's an interesting point. I'll reply with a question. How do the junior pilots who were at Air Canada when their hard times started feel? They probably don't feel too good since they're no longer employed (by Air Canada). So what seems like a weakness in our pay system actually has some strenth in that WestJet does not have to lay off employees at the first sign of a loss (although it at least WAS a profit for Q3). Instead, we all take a hit and when things turn around, we're all still here to benefit. So my guess is that the junior guys feel pretty good, they have a good job in a growing company. Also, junior around WestJet for now, is less than 2 years. The first two years at WestJet are more than AC's first two years of pay. I assume this new work conditions agreement will add a longer term pay scale for FO's depending on the length of the deal. Presently it doesn't go past 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverboy Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Also, junior around WestJet for now, is less than 2 years. The first two years at WestJet are more than AC's first two years of pay. I assume this new work conditions agreement will add a longer term pay scale for FO's depending on the length of the deal. Presently it doesn't go past 3 years. Are we not all junior at WJ? The longest time employee has only been at the company for about 8 years. Se he/she is flying a 40+million dollar machine and going to places that are not normal destination, not a bad job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Are we not all junior at WJ? The longest time employee has only been at the company for about 8 years. Se he/she is flying a 40+million dollar machine and going to places that are not normal destination, not a bad job. I realize that, I was trying to put in to perspective what would be a junior pilot at WestJet. Nobody on the WestJet side thinks about it becuase it really doesn't matter. Everybody get's the requested vacation time, everybody gets a good schedule... oh wait... except maybe not beaverboy for November (did that hurt?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 I am junior, I am content. The stocks are onely low if you're selling today. same with me. i knew what i was getting into, and I've never been happier with a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverboy Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 I realize that, I was trying to put in to perspective what would be a junior pilot at WestJet. Nobody on the WestJet side thinks about it becuase it really doesn't matter. Everybody get's the requested vacation time, everybody gets a good schedule... oh wait... except maybe not beaverboy for November (did that hurt?) OUCH..... I think that maybe now I need a raise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted October 30, 2004 Author Share Posted October 30, 2004 The question of whether the option plan (not the ESOP) will provide any returns is a valid one however. If the stock doesn't move up substantially then your income is severly affected. Historically, after major bull runs there have been years of sideways trending markets (1936-1949 sideways for 13 years, 1962-1982 sideways for 16 years and 2000-present sideways fore who knows how long). So at the moment there is a very real and undeniable risk that WJ stock may trend within a very small band for a substantial time. To assume that it will outperform the general market is a dangerous assumption. The rumour I heard appeared to have merit based on that thinking. If I understand correctly this Jan the association is talking with management (hence the poll) so soes that imply another 5 year agreement? Or are the talks only for the upcoming 2005 year? In any case, and I mean this with no disrespect, wage packages relying on price increases in stock are likely to be risky for the forseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stones Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 with or without the WJ stock doing well, WJ pilots are still paid a lot better then us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 The question of whether the option plan (not the ESOP) will provide any returns is a valid one however. If the stock doesn't move up substantially then your income is severly affected. Historically, after major bull runs there have been years of sideways trending markets (1936-1949 sideways for 13 years, 1962-1982 sideways for 16 years and 2000-present sideways fore who knows how long). So at the moment there is a very real and undeniable risk that WJ stock may trend within a very small band for a substantial time. To assume that it will outperform the general market is a dangerous assumption. The rumour I heard appeared to have merit based on that thinking. If I understand correctly this Jan the association is talking with management (hence the poll) so soes that imply another 5 year agreement? Or are the talks only for the upcoming 2005 year? In any case, and I mean this with no disrespect, wage packages relying on price increases in stock are likely to be risky for the forseeable future. I know why you're asking and because of good friends at your company I don't mind answering. The main advantage WestJet has going for it is an undeniable trust between both groups negotiating. They know this trust is a unique thing and that's why I'm assuming the people doing the talking will find an easy path to the middle ground. I don't know what our majority wanted, and I don't know how long the agreement will be for, but I know most people are fairly unphased by the fact an agreement is in the new year because everyone seems content, junior to senior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 stones----they're paid MUCH better than us Spinnaker--cheers for the thoughts. We can't have the same system simply because we're not public. What we end up with may work but will have to function quite differently. January will be interesting to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 stones----they're paid MUCH better than us Spinnaker--cheers for the thoughts. We can't have the same system simply because we're not public. What we end up with may work but will have to function quite differently. January will be interesting to watch. So did FO's make out any better than what was thought at first? If it's not public knowledge yet, don't reply and I can always ask a buddy later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 The entire offer in that regard was rejected. We meet this week to go over other ideas and specifics and hopefully come up with something that is all inclusive and, dare I say, more fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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