.70 mach Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I was just wondering if the two have sat down together to see if there is a solution about getting AC out of this mess together. My understanding of the situation is that ACPA wont return any of the calls from the JAZZ union group. Bottom line is we have to find solutions to make our airline profitable again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Actually sat down? Wonder no longer, NO. My understanding is that your understanding is incorrect. Curious, what cruises at .70? Bottom line, I agree. Now try to get both sides to agree.. WE have to find solutions? I think the high priced help is employed and paid well to find solutions, not create more problems. WE, have to find a way to support those solutions, imo. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Kinda hard to sit down if ACPA won't return the phone calls, no? How would you arrange a meeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PortTack Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Dragon, When you last posted to me on this issue I asked a Jazz ALPA rep to confirm about this attempt to communicate. ALPA has made a lot of attempts and he assures with out a doubt, ACPA will not talk to ALPA, and ALPA stopped trying again. It was even said across the country at various meetings that we tried for a dialoge and now, we'll just have to be played against one another (blind) in the next two months when a lot of announcments on the 'new' AC fleet plan are coming out. Cheers, PT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I think ACPA is kind of preoccupied at the moment.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 From the mouth of a member of my MEC [ACPA], thirtyish days ago; "Rainer and Dicintio [sp] have been talking, nothing has been offered from either side". Again, difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, more smoke, mirrors and misinformation - one side must not be coming clean?.. The only other comment I will offer is that as of a few days ago, again from someone that would know, Calin has said that a decision has not been made with respect to fleet or fleet distribution. Now if only you could believe what Calin says, of course you can’t. Q.. If the Regionals were to come to ACPA looking for a common good solution, where do you think they may start the negotiation, from your general feelings. Q.. Do you get the feeling that your National Executive is there for the good of the majority of your members? Q.. Do you think there is a general consensus there what the good of the majority would look like this time next year? cheers and best of luck. dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Yes, well, we're all preoccupied. The question is: are we preoccupied with the right thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 My ALPA rep says that they have approached ACPA on several occasions and been rebuffed, so you're right, one side isn't coming clean. Regarding a suitable place to start negotiations: I don't know and don't really feel like exploring the whole thing here again. It's been said here, over and over again, that the situation we ( the AC family ) find ourselves in is so extreme that it will require alot of 'outside the box' type problem-solving to solve. I have always felt that the pilots of AC and the regionals would be better served by being one group working together than two groups at odds. Certainly it's clear that an attempt is being made ( or will be made ) to play one groups against the other to the someone's detriment. Why don't we fix this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Tks seeker, Ya, you are singing to the choir. I was not looking for specifics really, just a general feeling. I too think we are better off together than we ever would be separately. That feeling is NOT spawned from the present challenge, rather, my belief that following this one there will be another and another and...` I, believe there is a solution out there somewhere, now if we could only find it?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PortTack Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Ahhhhh!!!!! I just posted you a long windbag response and lost it to a server error. I'll try and respond later tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Those server errors don't need to cost you the message... when you get it, just right click in the window and select back from there... It comes back *WITH* your message intact. Then copy the content before reloading the whole works for another attempt. If you just use a back key, or button on your mouse, it goes back to a blank post message window, but by using the right-click-back method, you lose nuthin'. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Damn, I LOVE long windbag responses,... makes me feel closer to my sister.. standing bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Another thought is to compose your response in word, spell check it at the same time, copy it and then paste it into the 'Post a Response' window. I learned that after doing exactly what you did one to many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Not always true. It's fifty fifty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PortTack Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Mitch, Dragon and DEFCON, Thanks for the info on ‘AEF 101.’ Q.. If the Regionals were to come to ACPA looking for a common good solution, where do you think they may start the negotiation, from your general feelings. Here’s my honest opinion: Both of the Pilot’s unions are too stupid, stubborn and egotistical with unnecessary pride to figure a truly fair solution. A solution where both sides give for a gain in the long run would be nice but it just won’t happen when we have the history we have. Just too many morons on both sides of the fence IMO. (I know a Jazz pilot is just dying to throw a jab in here about binding arbitration, hopefully we’ll be spared). Q.. Do you get the feeling that your National Executive is there for the good of the majority of your members? Yes I do. With a small reservation on one, I feel the MEC level at Jazz is competent and democratic. I won’t say who I have a reservation on, but the other two should be enough to keep him in check. Q.. Do you think there is a general consensus there what the good of the majority would look like this time next year? Well I can’t say anyone knows what we would look or feel like in one year. In the next 7 weeks, we will see a lot of information coming out, and we will be played against each other like we’ve never seen before, again, just my opinion. I wish I could give a better answers but the reality is that we have made our bed, and there is know way to get onside with one another before July 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Hi PT: You wrote pretty much the message I sat down here to write. There are no saints on either side of this situation. Lots of missed opportunities to resolve it too. It's funny that almost everyone, ACPA and ALPA, will agree with the general statement that we'd be better off being one group than two. There is, of course, no agreement on how to get there, on what must be sacrificed, by whom in order to cause the other guys to think they've won. We, both sides, have never had a better reason to get together and make a joint proposal that could make this go away forever. Will it happen? Not a chance. Two months from now one group will be celebrating their 'win' over the others guys. There is too much suspicion and antagonism built up over the years. I wish it wasn't true but fear it is. seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Hi PT: You wrote pretty much the message I sat down here to write. There are no saints on either side of this situation. Lots of missed opportunities to resolve it too. It's funny that almost everyone, ACPA and ALPA, will agree with the general statement that we'd be better off being one group than two. There is, of course, no agreement on how to get there, on what must be sacrificed, by whom in order to cause the other guys to think they've won. We, both sides, have never had a better reason to get together and make a joint proposal that could make this go away forever. Will it happen? Not a chance. Two months from now one group will be celebrating their 'win' over the others guys. There is too much suspicion and antagonism built up over the years. I wish it wasn't true but fear it is. seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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