Kip Powick Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 An article by Brian Tobin.... http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030408.cotobin0408/BNStory/National/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight69 Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Wow!! I didn't know Canadian Airline brought 7 billion dollars of debt to the Shotgun wedding. If this man knows what he is talking about(and he was a present government "Minister") that has to put a dent in anyone budget (or wedding). Returning to the shell. Later, IS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sustainable Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 I'm digging it up but I'm pretty sure that CP brought less than $2B to the table and an additional $450M of Tax breaks. The seven Billion is a load of crap. Sus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Dastardly Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Wedge, You shouldn't always accept what you read with blind faith. CAIL's debt was 3.4 billion prior to restructuring and 2 billion after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Dastardly Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Wedge, You shouldn't always accept what you read with blind faith. CAIL's debt was 3.4 billion prior to restructuring and 2 billion after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 This article was written by Brian Tobin. He is a politician, you can't believe ANYTHING he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 8, 2003 Author Share Posted April 8, 2003 Tobin was wrong...Research has found the COMBINED debt load of both AC and CP was over 7 Billion. Say BUD do a little research and don't always take what as written, no matter who writes it, as gospel and really...was the sarcasim needed??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 I note he says it was launched with no debt and lots of brand new A320s...... Fact or fiction??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr1 Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 That's my question too. It is often stated here that AC was privatized with no debt, a point which is vehemently opposed by many AC types. Which is it? dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 "Contrary to popular myth, Air Canada was not "forced" to absorb Canadian Airlines -- in fact, it fought tooth and nail for the merger." Hmmm, what is everyones take on this statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 "Contrary to popular myth, Air Canada was not "forced" to absorb Canadian Airlines -- in fact, it fought tooth and nail for the merger." Since you AC boys have taken the statement that CAIL brought 7 Billion in debt to the table at face value, then this statement must be correct as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Garneau Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Tobin is way off...nearly $5B off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Garneau Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/airlines/surrender.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 9, 2003 Author Share Posted April 9, 2003 Little testy here aren’t you WEDGE ??? I guess when one has a personal dislike for an individual; one may think that a Posting Header such as “Para seven is interesting” does create grounds for more personal contempt for the poster. Of course you do fail to mention that you took the article at face value, and immediately alluded to the 50% fleet of 737s and that huge debt, that CP brought to the table, didn’t you ??? Didn’t see a correction posted in the thread by you either, although I must admit you did attempt an oblique correction, for your assumptions, way down here, nowhere near your first response. BUD/WEDGE, enjoy your G48 but may I suggest that you exercise some restraint with regard to accusations concerning my motivation when posting anything, discard personal vendettas, and enjoy your role with the RJ. As much as I tend to disagree with your approach to a civil conversation, I do hope you are not one of those that will be shown the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 AC had 1.9 billion in debt when they were privatized. I'm not sure if the a320's were part of that figure or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 If that was the case, then why did the Liberal government suspend the competition laws which started the ONEX ball rolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr1 Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Brian Tobin says $0. You say $1.9B. Pierre Garneau says almost $5B. That's quite a spread, apparently nobody knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Garneau Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Correction, Pierre Garneau never said that it was 5 billion, I said that Tobin was off by 5 billion. Tobin says $7B, Garneau thinks $2B. The difference is $5B. Speaking to a few financially savvy types, AC did not actually buy CAIL, but rather a numbered Alberta company who put it in CCAA. The end result was a major reduction in that debt, considering tax advantages to Air Canada. Anyone with good numbers and facts, please join in. Regards. Pierre Garneau C A320 YYZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PRAPELLOR Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 From the August 25, 1988 Prospectus Page 28 Balance Sheet items: Long term debt: $1,033,000,000. Subordinated perpetual bonds: $336,000,000. On page 26 under financing plan a further $1.5 Billion of financial commitments to 4 lenders are listed, linked to the purchase of 767 and 320 aircraft. So Tobin is long on hyberbole and short on facts as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr1 Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Sorry about the misquote Pierre, I'll read more carefully next time. dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Garneau Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 No sweat, dr, I could have expressed it in a different (better) way. Cheers. PG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 "If that was the case, then why did the Liberal government suspend the competition laws which started the ONEX ball rolling?" Schwartz is buds with Collenette and wanted to make some money in the airline game. Collenette said okay. It's the same game that led to civillian Scwartz's ride in an F-18. I was going to say the ride was free however, I'm sure Collenette got greased in return? Democracy at its finest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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