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dr1 last won the day on February 12 2019

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  1. Hey Kip, it's been a while. This is going to be a bit of a threadjack but what the hell. It's always amusing for me to read people's take on this stuff and their perception of history, and Johnny's is not even close. I can answer this one definitively for you. When WestJet started, grooming was part of the flight attendant job description. Full stop. There was no pilot or "voluntary" grooming it was just the flight attendants. There certainly was no culture of "we are all equal" in fact back then the pilots were all considered management. None of the original flight attendants, with the exception of the inflight managers had any airline experience. Actually very few people outside of the flight ops and tech ops groups had any airline experience and so the pilots were expected to lead. We didn't wear leather jackets to dress down, we wore them because we were trying to differentiate ourselves from the competition. Plus they are just cool.? There was no "social experiment." The culture at the beginning was simply a culture of survival although having fun was also a big part of it. Everyone was prepared to do whatever was necessary to get the airline up and running and keep it aloft. There was a common goal and everyone was pulling in the same direction, a very rare occurrence in aviation and probably in most any business but it was immensely satisfying. Back then 6 legs a day was common, we often did more and our long haul flight was YEG - YVR at 1:20. I hated that one.? All the rest were 60 minutes or less and it was 25 minute turns all day, if we were on time. It was awesome! But it became apparent to me very early on that the flight attendants were really challenged by the short sectors and short turns. They were rarely off their feet and never even had a chance to eat their lunch or get off the aircraft just to use a real toilet. They were part of my team and if I could help them in any way I would, so I did. It never occurred to me that grooming was beneath me or that I was demeaning my profession. Hell, when I was flying corporate I had to wash the damn dishes after the flight! If me donating 5 minutes of my time to help groom the cabin meant that a flight attendant could go up to the terminal and use the washroom, or sit down and eat a sandwich or just go stand on the bridge to get some un-recycled air or if it might get us out on time, why wouldn't I? It was immediately obvious how much they appreciated the help so it just became routine for me. I never told the FOs I flew with that they should help but they started to anyway and, well, here we are today. So I guess I will take the blame for starting pilot grooming at WestJet. Pilots don't want to groom any more. Cleaning up a 120 seat aircraft after a 60 minute flight is one thing, cleaning up a 170 seat aircraft after a 5 hour flight is something else again and I get that so maybe it's time for a change. One of the arguments trotted out though is that pilots need to spend their time focusing on "safety related" duties, not grooming. That would be hysterically funny if it wasn't so pathetic. Somehow we managed to complete all our safety related duties and help the FAs when we were doing our 25 minute turns and back then we had to do our own weight and balance and performance calculations, on paper no less! All that is spoon fed to us now and our turns are usually 60 minutes. Mind you, back then safety related duties did not include sitting in the flight deck for 20 minutes, feet up, sipping a coffee and staring at a phone. That seems to be priority one for a lot of individuals these days. So there you go Kip. Like many things, pilot grooming at WestJet is an evolutionary thing that has now become a financial issue. Grooming was just one of the things our illustrious union was supposed to take care of but our boys got thoroughly schooled at the negotiating table. That's another story entirely. DR
  2. All of which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread or my post. Unless of course you're trying to promote the fantasy that this individual was fired for not buying into the culture.
  3. That is one steaming heap of crap right there. Since you don't know even half the story you'd be much better off keeping your opinions private. It will save you from looking really foolish when all is said and done.
  4. Dave: This is a sad embarrassment. The Gittel's of the world are all around us. Deal with it openly, as did we years ago. Let Them accuse us of harassment. It'll go away fast!


  5. I guarantee you won't be getting an apology. You disappoint me.
  6. That's a pretty vile statement John. There isn't a pilot, or any employee at WestJet for that matter, that has friends high enough to protect them from a sexual harassment charge. I'd expect better from you.
  7. Pretty exciting time for you inchman. Being the front runner on a brand new type is pretty cool, somewhat less so when the inevitable teething problems happen but still a once in a lifetime experience for most of us. I've had a couple of tours of the 87 and I have to say, the front office looks like an awesome place to work. Enjoy the ride. Dave
  8. Really John? Employee engagement has been a cornerstone at WestJet since day one and I'm pretty sure you know that. If anything, the failure of the last TA has made senior management a bit more sensitive to the issue but it certainly has nothing to do with the WPPA.
  9. Mitch, I checked the plot, she is in excellent hands. Left on time too.
  10. Mitch, I recently stumbled on a new TV series called Wonders of the Universe (on Oasis HD) with Dr. Brian Cox. Cox is a British physicist/chemist, a brilliant mind and eloquent speaker. If you haven't already, check it out. In the first episode I saw he explained the creation of the universe and everything in it in a such simple terms that even I could understand it. In the second episode he explained gravity and the third, time. Absolutely mind boggling and spectacular cinematography.
  11. Funny, I remember that story too... That's a triple whammy Mitch. Always liked Lazy, huge Bonamassa fan and anything with nasty Hammond organ in it gets me going. This is my favourite Bonamassa tune and video right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0lIZHspjXU
  12. CAT3DUAL, Chill dude. There is no proposal before the pilots, no vote pending so nothing to “unduly influence”. This a dialog, a post mortem if you will. I’m really trying to understand what happened. Bonhomme, Do I still feel WestJet puts employees first? Unequivocally, yes. I see examples of it regularly. I will come back to your point about erosion of culture. boestar, Uncommon common sense. Duster, Some of us are not welcome there. hammerhead, Here is the crux of the issue in my view and if we want to talk about the erosion of culture that Bonhomme brought up, let’s start right here. Since our inception, WestJet pilot compensation has been different. Our salaries are supposed to be less that the “median” or “industry standard” or whatever you want to call it and make it up with ESPP, options and profit share. The idea being that the basic salary would be a livable wage and would get us through tough times and would help keep he company competitive. During the good times we would more than make up for it, and we are supposed to have “skin in the game”. You knew that, we all knew that coming in but somewhere along the way we lost it. As FA@AC pointed out, depending on whose numbers you use we are already industry leading, but that doesn’t seem to be enough. So before anyone starts pointing fingers, maybe we should take a long hard look in the mirror. Ex 9A Guy, POS was it? I can’t imagine what you would find acceptable. Nobody said the sky is falling, at least I didn’t and haven’t heard it from anyone but you. I said we are facing some significant challenges, I didn’t even say they were all bad, but good or bad we all need to focus and pull together because there is a lot of work to be done and all of this is an unneeded distraction. I defy you to show me one piece of evidence to support this claim. I inhabit the "second floor" and I’m thinking that even if anyone wanted to do as you claim they wouldn’t need to, you seem to be doing a fine job of it all by yourself.
  13. I guess I’m not done. Seeker, I guess I should have added one of these or these too, obviously I don’t think you are rubbing your hands together in glee. I was trading on some of our previous duels and it was a lame attempt at humour that obviously missed the mark. My sincere apologies if I have offended. Bonhomme, I think I understand very well how those “less fortunate” than me feel and I genuinely believe I am looking out for their future. I am not just looking at these next five years, I’m looking 5 or ten years beyond that. We are facing some really significant challenges. We are going to need everyone pulling in the same direction to meet those challenges and we will most certainly need a strong bottom line. As I stated previously, I won’t be here. My time at WestJet has been a truly remarkable experience and I want everyone who is still here when I leave to have a great career as well. Seeker may very well be right about issues with Encore or bases or 1 in 50… I have heard other similar comments. If that is the case and people voted no because they are frustrated that would be unfortunate. The vote was solely about working conditions for the next 5 years and those other things won’t change because of the vote. But with the no vote the time and energy and resources that could go into resolving some of those issues - and preparing us for those coming challenges - will have to go back into renegotiating. If people voted no because they truly couldn't live with the proposal then so be it and I respect that decision. I just hope they didn't vote no because of phantom extra days or some other misconception. We really need to look beyond the horizon.
  14. This will really be my last word on the subject. Parakeet, I used to go on the WJPA forum occasionally, mostly to address technical questions or procedural stuff that came up. A few years ago I tried to log on and couldn’t get access, when I enquired about it I was told that it had been decided “management” pilots couldn’t have access (openness and transparency is a two way street BTW). So this is the only avenue I have left. You don’t like what I have to say? That’s okay, I still stand behind my words. toga, geez DUSTER, thinair and all those of you who have PM’d me, thanks for your sentiments. You guys give me hope. These last couple of days have been the lowest in all my years at WestJet. The results of the vote were released on Friday which, in some kind of twisted irony was also Profit Sharing Day and I did my usual 05:00 – 08:00 shift at the crew room handing out cheques. This is one of my favourite duties because everyone is always happy and pumped, even though it’s only 5:00 am. This year there was a notably subdued vibe and only 3 pilots showed up to get their cheques. I talked to one of the guys who handed out cheques at the party and he said only about 30 pilots showed up there. I also heard from one pilot who didn’t go to the party, he said he didn’t go because he “didn’t want to be around pilots right now”. That stuff is like a stab to the heart for me. We are different, at least we were and I’ll be damned if I will sit idly by while Seeker rubs his hands together and says “see, I told you so. You guys are no different”. I have been accused of being out of touch. That is undoubtedly true. The geeky, tech world I live in is far removed from line flying and the level of discontent that has become apparent over the last few weeks caught me completely by surprise. All these things have conspired to make this a really crappy weekend for me, so here I am, voicing my concerns not as “management” but as a pilot and owner. I won’t apologize for that.