Guest TonkaJet Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Having worked at Jazz I know for a fact that Jazz could NEVER get their costs lower than WJ. Union contracts are expensive and highly inflexible. Also, it's very difficult to change the culture of a company to think "low cost" in everything you do. I worked with lots of great guys but I also worked with alot of people that had been at the connectors for a very long time and didn't care at all about the company....even when the times were good. You have a culture of mistrust that won't change overnight no matter who is running the show and no matter what you are flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Puleeesee.... restrain yourself from using the word "T-Rex" in your posts , especially when you are referring TO things long since past. I think I first referred to the Boeing 737 as a T-Rex many years ago on AEF and believe that word was synonymous with the last real "pilot has to fly airship" in the airline inventory. Perhaps you could choose another word but my beloved FLUF will always be known by those that have had the honour of piloting same, as the airline's T-Rex !!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAT3DUAL Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 "they are after all ACPA, its all about ME over there. It always has been and always will be." This is like the "pot calling the kettle black", don't you think. If you follow this thread and many previous threads, its all about ME ME ME ME with Jazz posters. A few things you guys (and gals) are going to have to get your heads around; 1) You will never have narrow bodied jets. The 737 is a dinosaur and will be taken out of the fleet, more then likly in the next couple of years. Replacement A/C is probably more A319/A320. 2) In a word "scope", job protection for ACPA pilots. As awful as that may sound what would you have us do? I'm curious, don't you have any protection built in to protect you from the Air Georgians of the world, at least the type of A/C they can fly? Again, if so isn't this like the "pot calling the kettle black". 3) We retire close to 600 pilots in the next five years. Don't you think it's time to get over Picher and other perceived injustices and try and make some sort of transfer available to your members. If not for yourself, maybe for others at Jazz. Oh sorry, I forgot it's a ME ME ME thing and really who cares about anyone else at Jazz. :< 4) The tail doesn't wag the dog in this outfit. That goes for ACPA and ALPA! The company has the right to manage this company, and however poorly you think they are doing that, you have know control over it. I don't generally post or respond to anything on this forum, so please, feel free to slag away and name call all you want. I won't respond! Defcon, I don't want to add to your inferority complex, but not one mention of Jazz or scope on the ACPA forum. We have more infantile issues to fight about then Jazz. Cheers, and wish you all the best in these trying times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Operation Bomberclad Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 That's a good point, JW- but the financiers that lend money to the mothercorp look upon the airline as a liability and can just as easily pull the plug tomorrow. Very likely the current demand for concessions flows out from imperatives within financial institutions. Secured creditors are probably arranging for the eventuality that they will reap the benefits of a bankruptcy proceeding in order to recuperate principal and interest, while the unsecured creditors, including the retirees, unions, bonds holders and shareholders take a haircut. So why not attempt to enforce these conditions pre-emptively, as has become so popular in geopolitics lately? Why not assume a defacto bankruptcy, as has been enacted at the regional? The current moves to downgrade and dispense with Jazz are indicative of measures to temporarily stave off the inevitable. And with a strange urgency, the future is anticipated with a demand for massive concessions. But Jazz is worth more alive than dead and probably fetches a fair price under the right circumstances. It does not detract from the mainline operation- instead it is a contributor. Why there is a wholesale belief that Jazz is now a liability for some reason is largely an invention of the particpants of this message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 more infantile issues to fight about then Jazz. beauty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CJ Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 infantile....good word, as children are often selfish and don't really understand the effect they have on the world around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CJ Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 infantile....good word, as children are often selfish and don't really understand the effect they have on the world around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I liked it too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Prior to the info I provided the story was "a different story". Now you want more? How about we do a comparison using the AC / Zip and Jazz contracts. Better yet, would ACPA agree to a toe to toe bid for work competition with Jazz and the corp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nozel Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 ??? To refresh ones memory... Clipped from Kevin J's post above ...Cannibalisation... Yes, it was AC mainline but these routes were not flown by Jazz at the expense of mainline jobs. " This of course with the exception of a certain 243 way back in ancient history". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz2 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 I have to set the record stratight, being a Jazz pilot I am not happy with the scope clause ACPA has on us, having said that, it is management who choose to replace our current flying with ZIP, it is also our current management who have not tried to maximize our potential by acquiring 39 crj's, I could go on and on, but the fact remains that management has failed Jazz not ACPA, while ACPA is not our friend , and probably will never be, it is not directly their fault. ACPA , however has the ability to effect the bottom line of the company, and obviously, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eclipse Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Nothing would make me happier than exhisting red tails moved to Jazz. The process is already written how that can take place!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz2 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Well, you and I both know that is a loaded question, which cannot be answered in today's economic envirinment. Try to be a little more creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Wow common sense...no place for that on this forum. Seriously many AC pilots have friends at Jazz and care about their futures as well. If the parties could leave the past behind perhaps we could work something out in the future. Not ALL ACPA members have cloven hooves... Cheers Chico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floatrr Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Gents, (Ladies) Were my numbers waaay off? Did you miss my point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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