Southwest

[Malcolm]

Southwest Airlines is being applauded for its policy that allows “passengers of size” to request one or two seats, depending on their needs – for free.

Travellers whose bodies “encroach” past the armrest are entitled to an extra seat, the airline’s inclusion policy states.

Larger passengers “have the option of purchasing just one seat and then discussing your seating needs with the Customer Service Agent at the departure gate,” according to the policy, obtained by Fox Business .

“If it’s determined that a second (or third) seat is needed, you’ll be accommodated with a complimentary additional seat.”

The flight crew will even move other passengers around for the “unplanned accommodation” when extra seating arrangements need to be met.

Customers can also purchase extra seats in advance, then follow up with Southwest “for a refund of the cost of additional seating after travel,” if it doesn’t work out or is unneeded.

“Customers who encroach upon any part of the neighboring seat(s) may proactively purchase the needed number of seats prior to travel to ensure the additional seat(s) is available,” the policy states.

“The purchase of additional seats serves as a notification of a special seating need and allows us to adequately plan for the number of occupied seats onboard.”

The policy continues: “It also helps us ensure we can accommodate all Customers on the flight for which they purchased a ticket and avoid asking Customers to relinquish their seats for unplanned accommodation,” adding these allowances ensure “all Customers onboard have access to safe and comfortable seating.”

Southwest is one of the few carriers, maybe the only one, to offer free seats to larger passengers.

Plus-size travel influencer Jae’lynn Chaney called the policy an important move.

“Super fat is how we identify,” Chaney told Fox. “There’s a spectrum of fatness. And as a super fat individual, you start needing different accommodations… I just felt really happy that there was something like this for people.”

She added: “I hope to see more airlines implement customer-of-size policies. The Southwest customer size policy helps many travellers offset the disproportionate costs that we incur because of needing extra room.”

“It’s not just about physical accessibility. It’s also about financial accessibility,” Chaney explained.

Another TikToker who goes by the name @kimmystyled posted a video on the platform in October showing her receiving a seat at no extra cost.

“Hello, I’m hoping to use your customer of size policy today,” the self-described “Fat Solo Traveller” said to a Southwest employee at the counter who then handed Kimmy a complimentary extra ticket.

“Southwest is the only airline that allows you a second seat at no extra cost even if the flight is fully booked,” she said. “I’ve done this a dozen times and never had an issue or been denied.”

[Seeker]

I wonder if the other passengers know they are subsidizing this?

TANSTAAFL.

[UpperDeck]

In my opinion this is an incredibly sad statement about our current social standards and willingness to roll over in the face of a potential negative social media barrage.

This is a self-inflicted disability and diminishes the significance of accommodations of those who have mobility limitations through no fault of their own.

[Malcolm]

3 hours ago, Seeker said:

I wonder if the other passengers know they are subsidizing this?

TANSTAAFL.

So if an overweight passenger claims their extra seat on an oversold flight, who is denied their booked passage and what is their compensation?  Yet another can of worms.    

[conehead]

16 hours ago, Seeker said:

I wonder if the other passengers know they are subsidizing this?

TANSTAAFL.

Well, I learned something today. I had to look up TANSTAAFL.

[J.O.]

17 hours ago, UpperDeck said:

In my opinion this is an incredibly sad statement about our current social standards and willingness to roll over in the face of a potential negative social media barrage.

This is a self-inflicted disability and diminishes the significance of accommodations of those who have mobility limitations through no fault of their own.

I'm not going to dive deep into this one, but for many obese people, the issue is a lot more complicated than just a character flaw. Are there people who have self-inflicted? Yes. But to tar all of them with that brush does a disservice to the subject. 

[conehead]

2 hours ago, J.O. said:

I'm not going to dive deep into this one, but for many obese people, the issue is a lot more complicated than just a character flaw. Are there people who have self-inflicted? Yes. But to tar all of them with that brush does a disservice to the subject. 

I don't care what caused the obesity, it doesn't matter. If the customer requires 2 seats, then they should pay for 2 seats.

[UpperDeck]

3 hours ago, J.O. said:

I'm not going to dive deep into this one, but for many obese people, the issue is a lot more complicated than just a character flaw. Are there people who have self-inflicted? Yes. But to tar all of them with that brush does a disservice to the subject. 

What is the main cause of obesity?

 

 

It's caused when extra calories are stored in the body as fat. If you consume high amounts of energy, particularly found in high fat and high sugar foods, and do not use all of the energy through physical activity, much of the extra energy will be stored in the body as fat.

 

https://www.nhs.uk › conditions › c...

 

Obesity - Causes - NHS

 

I acknowledge I was often told; "It may be genetic and not their fault."

And yet those genetic factors can ultimately be overcome by dietary restrictions....and constraints. With all due respect, the bottom line is at least MOST obesity is self-inflicted. We're not helping anybody by making it more acceptable to be obese.

[J.O.]

1 hour ago, conehead said:

I don't care what caused the obesity, it doesn't matter. If the customer requires 2 seats, then they should pay for 2 seats.

Then prepare to see a world where everyone pays for their flight by the pound, because that's the slippery slope this introduces. Same would go for charging disabled pax for wheelchair services, etc. etc. etc. 

Southwest's move on this is brilliant. Think about it - if you were the obese passenger, would you rather travel that way, or face the embarrassment of taking up half the person's seat next to you. I've never been in those shoes but I can imagine it's a difficult place to be. And if you are that person sitting next to them, would you rather lose half your seat space, or see the airline do something similar? Southwest wouldn't have done it without first engaging in a cost analysis (because cost control is engrained in that organization) and they've clearly decided the benefits outweigh the risks. IMHO, the day is going to come when companies either engage in something similar voluntarily or they will have it forced upon them.

[UpperDeck]

And when do we collectively draw the line and say; "No more!!"?

You appear to acknowledge that bureaucrats with agendas will persevere.....and succeed.

Whether it be rainbow-hued sidewalks or uni-sex washrooms.....in my opinion, the voices of the majority should prevail in a "free and democratic society."

 

[Malcolm]

2 hours ago, UpperDeck said:

And when do we collectively draw the line and say; "No more!!"?

You appear to acknowledge that bureaucrats with agendas will persevere.....and succeed.

Whether it be rainbow-hued sidewalks or uni-sex washrooms.....in my opinion, the voices of the majority should prevail in a "free and democratic society."

 

Who would draw up the list of exceptions?  Wheelchairs etc?

[Malcolm]

9 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

Who would draw up the list of exceptions?  Wheelchairs etc? That being said you and those who think as you do have an ideal chance to force change, at least at Southwest and boycott their service.  However not very likely to happen. 

 

[UpperDeck]

Malcolm....."those who think like I do"? Hmm. Guessing we're not ad idem.

However...I agree that my boycott of SW is unlikely to make any difference. The proof is in the pudding. I've never flown on SW and the absence of my custom has had no impact. Lol

[UpperDeck]

11 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

 

Malcolm.....I'm not in favour of injection sites either. I guess you're right.....I'm an incurable romantic!! Or a right wing fanatic.

[Malcolm]

34 minutes ago, UpperDeck said:

Malcolm.....I'm not in favour of injection sites either. I guess you're right.....I'm an incurable romantic!! Or a right wing fanatic.

Both?

[J.O.]

23 hours ago, UpperDeck said:

And when do we collectively draw the line and say; "No more!!"?

You appear to acknowledge that bureaucrats with agendas will persevere.....and succeed.

Whether it be rainbow-hued sidewalks or uni-sex washrooms.....in my opinion, the voices of the majority should prevail in a "free and democratic society."

 

Sliding slightly off topic here, no? Clearly neither of us has ever been part of a marginalized element of society. There is plenty of historical evidence how a "majority" benefited from at the expense of a minority, yet over time we evolved and decided that said benefit was inhuman.  And honestly, how does a multi-coloured crosswalk negatively affect "the majority's" day in any tangible way? Personally, I have way bigger things to be concerned about.

[Seeker]

1 hour ago, J.O. said:

 And honestly, how does a multi-coloured crosswalk negatively affect "the majority's" day in any tangible way? Personally, I have way bigger things to be concerned about.

That's like asking why a swastika flag or a Che Guevera t-shirt is offensive - it's just a bit of coloured fabric, so what's the problem?

[Malcolm]

2 hours ago, Seeker said:

That's like asking why a swastika flag or a Che Guevera t-shirt is offensive - it's just a bit of coloured fabric, so what's the problem?

Here is the thanks, I can not give you do to your status.   

[UpperDeck]

One thing for certain. Not all being of one mind permits of some interesting exchanges of opinion worth reading.

[Seeker]

7 hours ago, UpperDeck said:

One thing for certain. Not all being of one mind permits of some interesting exchanges of opinion worth reading.

My fault for not being more clear with my meaning.  I was not trying to say that swastikas and rainbow-painted crosswalks are equivalent.  I was drawing an analogy;  just a bit of coloured paint, just a bit of coloured fabric.  Obviously the meaning behind the paint and cloth is what's important and what people are reacting to.

[UpperDeck]

And my reference to rainbow hued sidewalks wasn't a commentary on sexual identities etc but rather a reflection upon the use of revenue generated from property taxes to make a "statement". Somewhat akin to re-naming Dundas Square in YYZ. The obligation of municipalities is to provide basic services required by property owners who pay those taxes; sewerage, water, protection of persons and property etc.

Oops! Thread creep.

[Malcolm]

Size Matters at Southwest

Yet another example of Marketing 101 vs reality, at least for the poor gate agent who in the case of a full flight will need to find a seat for the bulky passenger and will have to take one seat away from another passenger and deny them their booked passage.  Hmmm

[J.O.]

22 hours ago, Malcolm said:

Size Matters at Southwest

Yet another example of Marketing 101 vs reality, at least for the poor gate agent who in the case of a full flight will need to find a seat for the bulky passenger and will have to take one seat away from another passenger and deny them their booked passage.  Hmmm

Southwest's plan is meant to reduce the frequency with which that happens though, which is one reason why I think it's a smart way to handle a delicate issue.

[UpperDeck]

JO....obviously, one is entitled to their opinion but I can't help but wonder why you are convinced this is a "sensitive issue". I don't believe gross obesity is yet considered a disability requiring accommodation. If you are too large to fit in one seat then you pay for two. The pax now has an incentive to stick with that diet!!

The slope ahead is very slippery. Think of how " emotional support" animals became an oft-abused scam. As a society, there is good reason to offer assistance to persons who have  limited mobility but no rational good deed goes unpunished. I am sure you know that organizations such as the ADA go in search of properties where the "duty to accommodate" has been breached in some small way and the resulting complaint generates compensation and is a cash cow for the litigious.

Why are we now burdened by carbon taxes? The rationale is to reduce carbon emissions. Correct? Alcohol and tobacco taxes were not intended as revenue sources per se but rather an incentive to consumers to reduce or eliminate their use of those products.

So....why would we as a society reward obesity .....a well- recognized significant health hazard....by subsidizing larger airline seats the access to which is limited to the grossly obese?

[Malcolm]

Obesity is a bigger problem than most realize

Causes of obesity, 

Causes

• Common causes of obesity include:
• Genetics
• Physiological influences
• Food intake and eating disorders
• Weight history
• The risk factors include:
• Hereditary
• Unhealthy diet
• Sedentary lifestyle
• Drugs like steroid hormones and Drugs used to treat psychiatric conditions
• Pregnancy
• Lack of sleep
• Quitting smoking

 

Symptoms & Reports

Prevention

 

• Exercise regularly
• Eat a well-balanced diet
• Maintain a healthy body weight
• Limit unhealthy foods (refined grains and sweets, potatoes, red meat, processed meat) and beverages (sugary drinks)
• Improve sleep routine and reduce the stress

 For a full list of the world's countries and their obesity rates and average BMIs, see the table below.

 

Country	% of Obese Adults
Nauru	61%
Cook Islands	55.9%
Palau	55.3%
Marshall Islands	52.9%
Tuvalu	51.6%
Niue	50%
Tonga	48.2%
Samoa	47.3%
Kiribati	46%
Micronesia	45.8%
Kuwait	37.9%
United States	36.2%
Jordan	35.5%
Saudi Arabia	35.4%
Qatar	35.1%
Lebanon	33.7%
Libya	32.5%
Turkey	32.1%
Egypt	32%
United Arab Emirates	31.7%
Bahamas	31.6%
New Zealand	30.8%
Iraq	30.4%
Fiji	30.2%
Bahrain	29.8%
Canada	29.4%
Australia	29%
Mexico	28.9%
Malta	28.9%
South Africa	28.3%
Argentina	28.3%
Chile	28%
Uruguay	27.9%
Dominica	27.9%
United Kingdom	27.8%
Syria	27.8%
Dominican Republic	27.6%
Algeria	27.4%
Oman	27%
Tunisia	26.9%
Hungary	26.4%
Suriname	26.4%
Lithuania	26.3%
Morocco	26.1%
Israel	26.1%
Czech Republic	26%
Iran	25.8%
Costa Rica	25.7%
Venezuela	25.6%
Andorra	25.6%
Ireland	25.3%
Vanuatu	25.2%
Bulgaria	25%
Greece	24.9%
Jamaica	24.7%
Cuba	24.6%
El Salvador	24.6%
Belarus	24.5%
Croatia	24.4%
Ukraine	24.1%
Belize	24.1%
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines	24.1%
Spain	23.8%
Nicaragua	23.7%
Latvia	23.6%
Montenegro	23.3%
Russia	23.1%
Poland	23.1%
Norway	23.1%
Barbados	23.1%
Saint Kitts and Nevis	22.9%
Haiti	22.7%
Panama	22.7%
Luxembourg	22.6%
Romania	22.5%
Solomon Islands	22.5%
Germany	22.3%
Colombia	22.3%
Finland	22.2%
Brazil	22.1%
Belgium	22.1%
Iceland	21.9%
Cyprus	21.8%
Georgia	21.7%
Albania	21.7%
France	21.6%
Serbia	21.5%
Honduras	21.4%
Papua New Guinea	21.3%
Grenada	21.3%
Guatemala	21.2%
Estonia	21.2%
Kazakhstan	21%
Portugal	20.8%
Sweden	20.6%
Mongolia	20.6%
Slovakia	20.5%
Netherlands	20.4%
Paraguay	20.3%
Bolivia	20.2%
Armenia	20.2%
Slovenia	20.2%
Guyana	20.2%
Austria	20.1%
Italy	19.9%
Ecuador	19.9%
Azerbaijan	19.9%
Peru	19.7%
Denmark	19.7%
Saint Lucia	19.7%
Switzerland	19.5%
Moldova	18.9%
Botswana	18.9%
Antigua and Barbuda	18.9%
Turkmenistan	18.6%
Trinidad and Tobago	18.6%
Bosnia and Herzegovina	17.9%
Namibia	17.2%
Yemen	17.1%
Uzbekistan	16.6%
Kyrgyzstan	16.6%
Lesotho	16.6%
Eswatini	16.5%
Malaysia	15.6%
Zimbabwe	15.5%
Gabon	15%
Tajikistan	14.2%
Brunei	14.1%
Seychelles	14%
Djibouti	13.5%
Mauritania	12.7%
Sao Tome and Principe	12.4%
Cape Verde	11.8%
Cameroon	11.4%
Ghana	10.9%
Mauritius	10.8%
Ivory Coast	10.3%
Gambia	10.3%
Thailand	10%
Liberia	9.9%
Benin	9.6%
Republic of the Congo	9.6%
Guinea Bissau	9.5%
Nigeria	8.9%
Senegal	8.8%
Sierra Leone	8.7%
Pakistan	8.6%
Sudan	8.6%
Mali	8.6%
South Sudan	8.6%
Maldives	8.6%
Tanzania	8.4%
Togo	8.4%
Somalia	8.3%
Angola	8.2%
Zambia	8.1%
Equatorial Guinea	8%
Comoros	7.8%
Guinea	7.7%
Central African Republic	7.5%
Mozambique	7.2%
Kenya	7.1%
Indonesia	6.9%
North Korea	6.8%
DR Congo	6.7%
Philippines	6.4%
Bhutan	6.4%
China	6.2%
Chad	6.1%
Singapore	6.1%
Myanmar	5.8%
Malawi	5.8%
Rwanda	5.8%
Burkina Faso	5.6%
Afghanistan	5.5%
Niger	5.5%
Burundi	5.4%
Uganda	5.3%
Madagascar	5.3%
Laos	5.3%
Sri Lanka	5.2%
Eritrea	5%
South Korea	4.7%
Ethiopia	4.5%
Japan	4.3%
Nepal	4.1%
India	3.9%
Cambodia	3.9%
Timor Leste	3.8%
Bangladesh	3.6%
Vietnam	2.1%
World	12.56%

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