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The following is an independent commenter on the worldwide auto industry.  He can be a little difficult to listen to since he's Australian (accent) and uses a lot of idiom and slang but the content is excellent.  Great analysis and high level view of the societal, government and industry implications of various decisions in the EV industry.  The following regards EVs and is worth the 20 minutes.  I guess I should mention that it's NSFW due to a very few bits of profanity (very few, but they are there).


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Consumer Reports: Electric vehicles less reliable, on average, than conventional cars and trucks (techxplore.com)

Consumer Reports: Electric vehicles less reliable, on average, than conventional cars and trucks

Consumer Reports: Electric vehicles less reliable, on average, than conventional cars and trucks© Provided by The Canadian Press

DETROIT (AP) — Electric vehicles have proved far less reliable, on average, than gasoline-powered cars, trucks and SUVs, according to the latest survey by Consumer Reports, which found that EVs from the 2021 through 2023 model years encountered nearly 80% more problems than did vehicles propelled by internal combustion engines.

Consumer Reports said EV owners most frequently reported troubles with battery and charging systems as well as flaws in how the vehicles’ body panels and interior parts fit together. The magazine and website noted that EV manufacturers are still learning to construct completely new power systems, and it suggested that as they do, the overall reliability of electric vehicles should improve.

“This story is really one of growing pains,” said Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports. “It's a story of just working out the bugs and the kinks of new technology.”

Still, Consumer Reports noted that lingering concerns about reliability will likely add to the issues that give many buyers pause when considering a switch to the new technology, joining concerns about higher costs, too few charging stations and long charging times.

The growth of electric vehicle sales has slowed sharply since last year. In June 2022, EV sales were growing about 90% year over year. By June of this year the 12-month growth rate had slowed to about 50%, and automakers have become increasingly fearful that the pace will weaken further.

Reflecting that concern, about 3,900 U.S. auto dealers this week signed a letter to President Joe Biden, asking him to rethink what the dealers called unrealistic fuel economy and emissions requirements that could require electric vehicles to reach 67% of total U.S. vehicle sales by 2032.

Consumer enthusiasm for EVs, their letter warned, has stalled.

“They are not selling nearly as fast as they are arriving at our dealerships, even with deep price cuts, manufacturer incentives and generous government incentives,” the letter said.

The Consumer Reports survey also concluded that plug-in hybrids, which can travel on battery power before a gas-electric powertrain kicks in, are more problem-prone than fully electric vehicles. Plug-ins, Fisher pointed out, contain two separate and complex power systems in which glitches can arise. He also noted that brands that over time have proved less reliable, in general, such as Jeep and Volvo, have started mass-producing plug-in hybrids.

But tried-and-true integrated gas-electric hybrid systems are more reliable than gasoline vehicles, largely because they have been in use for about a quarter-century and the bugs have mostly been worked out, Fisher said.

Consumer Reports derived its survey data from subscribers who owned EVs from the 2021 through 2023 model years and compared them with other vehicle types. In calculating a vehicle’s average problem rate, the organization assigned extra weight to serious problems such as battery or engine failures.

EVs from the 2021 and 2022 model years overall had more than twice the problem rates of internal combustion vehicles. The rates were more closely aligned in the 2023 model year: Those EVs had only 21% more problems than gasoline vehicles, Fisher said.

The narrower gap in problems between EVs and combustion vehicles in the 2023 model year, Fisher said, suggested that the reliability of EVs, in general, is improving. Still, he noted, newer vehicles tend to have lower problem rates that rise as they age.

Among the EV owners who have had problems with their vehicles is Michael Coram of Lockport, New York, near Buffalo. In July, intent on reducing his commuting costs, Coram bought a 2023 Chevrolet Bolt electric SUV, attracted by its sporty handling. Coram, 44, a heating and air conditioning technician, said he ran into one annoying problem: On a chilly day in mid-November, his Bolt wouldn't shift into drive.

Eventually, after Coram had turned the car on and off 10 or 12 times, the problem fixed itself, and he hasn't experienced it since. Other owners on a Bolt social media forum told Coram that he might have shifted into drive before the SUV's computer had finished its startup sequence.

“It kind of is a bit too much for the computer to handle,” he said.

Now, Coram waits for all of the dashboard lights to go out before pushing the drive button. He said his dealer told him that mechanics will check the Bolt when a loaner car is available for him.


In 2021, General Motors recalled its popular electric Bolt from the 2017 through 2022 model years to replace the batteries because of manufacturing defects that could cause fires. Fisher said Bolt owners had to limit how much they charged the batteries and had to park them outdoors until replacement batteries became available. Repairs were still being made this year, Fisher said, causing some Bolt owners to report problems in the Consumer Reports survey.

In addition, owners of Hyundai's Ioniq 5 EV reported battery and charging issues related to a charging control computer, which, in some cases, caused the vehicles to stall.

Rivian, an upstart manufacturer of electric pickup trucks and SUVs, had trouble getting body panels to line up correctly and with broken interior parts, Fisher said.

Tesla, the EV sales leader, which now has years of experience building vehicles, showed improvement in reliability, Fisher said. This was largely because a high proportion of Tesla's sales involve the relatively small and less-expensive Model Y SUV and Model 3 cars. Those are simpler to build and lack the glitch-prone new technology that Telsa offers in its more expensive vehicles, the Models S and X.

Tesla ranked 14th out of 30 automotive brands in the 2023 survey, up from 19th in 2022.

Lexus, Toyota's luxury brand, was the most reliable in the survey, followed by Toyota, Mini, Acura and Honda. The five lowest-ranking brands were Jeep, Volkswagen, Rivian, Mercedes-Benz and Chrysler.

The most reliable segment of the market was compact cars, followed by sportscars, small pickups, midsize and large cars, luxury midsize and large cars. Electric cars, electric SUVs, full-size pickups, midsize pickups, and electric pickups had the worst reliability.

Consumer Reports says its survey of subscribers, representing 330,000 vehicles, took place last spring and summer. It asked owners of vehicles from the 2000 through 2023 model years, with a smattering of 2024 models, about problems they had experienced in the previous 12 months.

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    InsideEVs Global
That’s why Consumer Reports put 22 zero-emissions cars to the test by driving them with a full battery at a constant speed of 70 miles per hour until they shut down
All the cars tested by CR were purchased anonymously from local dealerships and vehicle manufacturers. The outside temperature was between 70 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit, the tire pressure was set to factory specifications, the vehicles were preconditioned inside a garage, and the climate control was set to 72 degrees.
The biggest outlier was the Ford F-150 Lightning with the Extended Range battery, which ran out of battery after 270 miles, 50 miles less than the EPA estimate, followed by the Lucid Air Touring and Tesla Model S Long Range. In the case of the Air, it missed its 384-mile estimate by 40 miles, while the Model S fell 39 miles short of its 405-mile advertised range.

Reports Drove 22 EVs Until They Died. Nearly Half Fell Short Of Their EPA Ranges

Here’s the complete list of EVs that were range-tested by CR:

Model EPA Rating CR Tested Range
Audi Q4 50 E-Tron Premium Plus 241 Miles 226 Miles
BMW i4 M50 271 Miles 318 Miles
BMW iX xDrive50 324 Miles 370 Miles
Ford F-150 Lightning Lariat ER 320 Miles 270 Miles
Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium AWD ER 270 Miles 299 Miles
Genesis Electrified GV70 Advanced 236 Miles 220 Miles
Genesis GV60 Advanced 248 Miles 251 Miles
Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL AWD 256 Miles 267 Miles
Hyundai Ioniq 6 SEL AWD 270 Miles 265 Miles
Kia EV6 Wind AWD 274 Miles 277 Miles
Kia Niro EV Wind 253 Miles 239 Miles
Lexus RZ 450e Premium 220 Miles 202 Miles
Lucid Air Touring 384 Miles 344 Miles
Mercedes-Benz EQE 350 4Matic 260 Miles 332 Miles
Mercedes-Benz EQE SUV 350 4Matic 253 Miles 284 Miles
Mercedes-Benz EQS 580 4Matic 340 Miles 380 Miles
Mercedes-Benz EQS SUV 450 4Matic 285 Miles 314 Miles
Nissan Ariya Platinum+ AWD 257 Miles 253 Miles
Rivian R1T 314 Miles 344 Miles
Subaru Solterra Limited 222 Miles 210 Miles
Tesla Model S Long Range 405 Miles 366 Miles
Volkswagen ID.4 Pro S AWD 240 Miles 253 Miles
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17 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

we are told this will happen, mostly by those with garages or parking pads but:

How do you charge an EV without a garage or driveway? | Watch (msn.com)

You have to be some sort of immense moron if you buy an EV without a garage or driveway.  Actually, even if you have a garage or driveway.

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