UpperDeck Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Okay. It turns out it's a two part question. For those who answered "Yes"......including the originator... What about the person born in Canada to a parent born in France. The Canadian citizen (by birth) has the right to French (Euro) citizenship by parentage. Should that person have to surrender their birthright if invoking the right to euro citizenship? No? Why the difference in opinion? Same horse---different jockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 What about the person born in Canada to a parent born in France. The Canadian citizen (by birth) has the right to French (Euro) citizenship by parentage. France? Did you say France...your scr*wed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Okay. It turns out it's a two part question. For those who answered "Yes"......including the originator... What about the person born in Canada to a parent born in France. The Canadian citizen (by birth) has the right to French (Euro) citizenship by parentage. Should that person have to surrender their birthright if invoking the right to euro citizenship? No? Why the difference in opinion? Same horse---different jockey. I'm the originator and I answered my own question with "yes". The fact that the parent was born in France is not relevant IF they have the one and only Canadian Passport. If they do not have the Canadian Passport then they must be visiting , on a visa, etc., and therefore the child would fall under whatever country the parent carries a Passport for. (In my scenario..... "voting yes"........ the following would be part of the "law".) Just because one is born while your birth parent is in Canada does not justify the issuing of a Canadian Citizenship to the newborn if the parent is not a Canadian, with a valid Canadian Passport. Keep it simple...works much better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Sheesh! I feel like I'm listening to Lemmon and Matthau all over again! Ten years ago, I was on a CAI DC10 on my way to the UK for a holiday. I was on a pass and crammed into the window seat next to the 3L (or somewhere in that vicinity) exit. My legs were jammed sideways against the slide, and I had two F/A's facing me in their jumpseats. After takeoff, the Purser announced the inflight movie was to be "Grumpy Old Men". I asked the two ladies facing me "What are you going to do - pass a camera around the flight deck?" It was a really good flight after that Kip: SIMPLE ANSWER? I CAN'T HANDLE A SIMPLE ANSWER! Maybe you need to start a poll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Just because one is born while your birth parent is in Canada does not justify the issuing of a Canadian Citizenship to the newborn if the parent is not a Canadian, with a valid Canadian Passport. Keep it simple...works much better But Kip....it's NEVER that simple!! You made certain assumptions in responding to the question. Those assumptions should be re-visited. Father born in Paris; emigrates to Canada at age 21; returns to Paris three times in the next 50 years never for more than a few weeks. He's a CANADIAN!!! Duly obtains citizenship at the earliest date. Meets a lovely NB woman a few years later; fathers three children all born in Montreal. Those children are (maybe now "were") entitled to French (Euro) citizenship. My "come-back" question had nothing to do with the father per se. What about the children? There are decided benefits in acquiring and maintaining Euro citizenship. Should the children be required to choose between the two? Does one surrender a birthright by accepting a "privilege of birth"? I know the legal answer but that's not the point of the discussion, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 But Kip....it's NEVER that simple!! Never said it was, but as stated..... the answer if one answered "yes" is simple, if a law was enacted. Should the children be required to choose between the two? No, not at the time of birth...... they do not have a choice.......born in Canada, of CANADIAN parents,one of which immigrated to Canada and acquired a single, (one),Canadian Passport they are Canadians. If they wish to renounce their ties with Canada, then turn in their Passports and get a Euro Passport but they can not hold two Passports..... if they wish to be Canadian citizens.The choice is theirs. As I said, it is simple in my mind. Now based on your postings I realize you have a legal mind and possibly want to dissect the whole scenario, or throw in a bunch of "what-ifs" but there is no point in doing so because governments never do anything that is simple which in effect means my question and answer of "yes" will never be enacted into law ....too worried about offending someone, or some minority...... on the fringe. After all we are Canadians... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 And then of course there are those that our laws protect even though they are not citizens. If we are not allowed to detain folks under this type of law, what should we be able to do. 1. Remove non-citizens who are suspects from our country (probably against their human rights also as recent deportation hearings would seem to indicate). 2. Lock them up and hold open court (lawyers benefit ) but so would the detainees or ???? http://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/2007/2007scc9/2007scc9.html Canada's High Court Strikes Down Indefinite Detention By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: February 23, 2007 Filed at 2:41 p.m. ET OTTAWA (AP) -- One of Canada's most contentious anti-terrorism provisions was struck down Friday by the Supreme Court, which declared it unconstitutional to detain foreign terror suspects indefinitely while the courts review their deportation orders. The 9-0 ruling was a blow to the government's anti-terrorism regulations. Five Arab Muslim men have been held for years under the ''security certificate'' program, which the Justice Department had insisted is a key tool in the fight against global terrorism and essential to Canada's security. The court found that the system violates the Charter of Rights and Freedom, Canada's bill of rights. It suspended the judgment from taking effect for a year, to give Parliament time to rewrite the part of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act that covers the certificates. The security certificates were challenged on constitutional grounds by three men from Morocco, Syria and Algeria -- all alleged by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service to have ties to al-Qaida and other terrorist networks. The law now allows sensitive intelligence to be heard behind closed doors by a federal judge, with only sketchy summaries given to defense attorneys. The men have spent years in jail while fighting deportation orders. They risk being labeled terrorists and sent back to their native countries, where they face possible torture. The court called this a fundamental violation of their human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Ace Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Perhaps it should be a little more chalenging to become a Canadian citizen if you are not born here. 15 - 20 years living in Canada and being loyal to Canada before you are eligible for citizenship. Canada should retain its right to deport non desirables for a longer period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Perhaps it should be a little more chalenging to become a Canadian citizen if you are not born here. 15 - 20 years living in Canada and being loyal to Canada before you are eligible for citizenship. Canada should retain its right to deport non desirables for a longer period of time. I would agree if we could also do the same for folks who were born here who are not loyal and / or are undesirable citizens. Not sure if living here for 15 - 20 years proves anything. I believe the folks in question are not citizens and that is where the problem starts. Our laws prevent us from deporting people (non citizens) without lengthy and costly court procedures, this is a direct result of our "Charter of Rights and Freedom" which granted certain rights / freedoms to anyone living in Canada. The quick fix, which will never happen, would be to change the wording so it applies only to citizens and landed immigrants and not to those who are here illegally or who have, while non citizens, committed a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plankspanker Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 As a Landed immigrant and 10 year resident in Canada I do feel that making a person give up citizenship to their country of origin is harsh and I think as you were born here you might find difficult to understand why. The bottom line is the vast majority of my extended family still resides in my country of birth and my citizenship ensures unfettered and unlimited access to them in the future. I agree with Arctic Ace, it should require a longer period of residence before being eligible for Canadian citizenship. FWIW I am only now getting around to applying for mine because after ten years I feel like this really is my home and I want the priviledges that go with citizenship. If I had to give up my British passport I wouldn't do it. So my simple answer Kip is No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 The bottom line is the vast majority of my extended family still resides in my country of birth and my citizenship ensures unfettered and unlimited access to them in the future. And based on that one line I have to assume that you feel by holding only a Canadian Passport you would not have "unfettered and unlimited access" to your relatives in the UK ? Just curious...why?? Thanks for your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plankspanker Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I can't predict how UK (and for that matter EU) immigration laws might change in the future and that is what would worry me about surrendering my British citizenship. As of right now I think there are limits on how long a Canadians are allowed to remain in the UK without special visas as is the case for British citizens in Canada. If I wanted to return home in case of say a family emergency for an extended period the last thing I want to deal with is the hassle of getting the necessary paperwork in order to do so. I know how much some on this forum love government bureacracy so hopefully you'll understand. I've already been through an experience like this with the Permanent Resident ID card. Because of an error on the part of the agency involved I was presented with the option of not attending my brother's wedding in Europe or risk denial of entry on my return to Canada because I didn't have the card. I had done everything I was supposed to well in advance. If I'd had a Canadian passport it wouldn't have been an issue. I want to avoid similar issues getting back to the UK and I have a real problem (and it is an emotional one) about having to jump through even one extra hoop to get to see my family. My advice and opinion. Be careful who you let become Canadian's in the first place. I'm all for that even though it might affect me directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flapsforty Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 We'll let you stay on one condition.... Drop the smoking inquiries. Cheers mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plankspanker Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 So when are you going to quit? Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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