ccairspace Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 handyman, Apr 2 2006, 02:01 PM What does matter is that the current system doesn't work and needs to be changed. Money alone will not fix what we have. In fact the current system does work but needs some changes. And the unpalatable reality for many is that much of the change needs to come from the consumer. No matter how many so-called private hospitals there are, they will never accommodate an increasingly unhealthy population of baby-boomers creeping toward geriatricity. GDR, Apr 1 2006, 08:32 AM I believe that the vast majority of the talk about private health care is only about the actual delivery of health care. The funding would still be public. Nope. The funding would be private. The hospitals would be for-profit enterprises that had investors, just like airlines. These investors would be looking for a return on their investment, just like airlines. Patients who wanted expedited service in "first class" would pay a premium, just like airlines. What the government has said, at least in Alberta, is that anyone could use these hospitals and use their health cards to get service if they were unable to pay privately, but guess where they will be standing in line? rattler, Apr 1 2006, 09:22 AM Doctors would be able to work in both systems. On Mondays and Fridays... Specs, Apr 1 2006, 10:44 AM eg: From my own personal experience I can build you a manual wheelchair from scratch for less than $150.00...When you think medical equipment "costs", think aviation. Many airplane parts can be purchased in Home Depot, for much less than than your careful AME can purchase them... YYC I/C, Apr 1 2006, 10:23 PM Universal health care is an affront to civil liberties. (see comments above). I read an article recently on the history of the fire department. Originally, they were private. If you had a sign outside your house that indicated you were a paid up member of this organisation and you had a house fire, the firemen would put it out. Otherwise, they watched your house burn. Over time the illogic of this practise became apparent and now we have a "universal" system, paid for with tax dollars. Is that also an affront to civil liberties? When I hear people bemoaning the inefficiencie of the medical system and how "privatising" makes such fiscal sense, I think NAVCANADA... ccairspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 In fact the current system does work but needs some changes. And the unpalatable reality for many is that much of the change needs to come from the consumer. No matter how many so-called private hospitals there are, they will never accommodate an increasingly unhealthy population of baby-boomers creeping toward geriatricity. OK, your car works but it needs repairs? I call that broken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YYC I/C Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I read an article recently on the history of the fire department. Originally, they were private. If you had a sign outside your house that indicated you were a paid up member of this organisation and you had a house fire, the firemen would put it out. Otherwise, they watched your house burn. Over time the illogic of this practise became apparent and now we have "universal" system, paid for with tx dollars. Is that also an afront to civil liberties? ccairspace, No, absolutely not. But if my house is on fire and it is taking too long for the fire department to come and extinguish it.....and the government says I have to sit by and watch my house burn down and see my family perish - without allowing me to pay above and beyond my "fire department" tax contribution for additional fire extinguishing servies - then that is an affront to my civil libirties. When ever somebody tells me I can't pay to get health care I need, you better believe my civil liberties have been supressed. I'm not advocating not paying taxes. I'm advocating being allowed to spend MY money where I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I find that people I come across who are spouting off about possible changes to the health care system rarely even check the facts, and they rarely even know what they're arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDR Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 GDR, Apr 1 2006, 08:32 AM I believe that the vast majority of the talk about private health care is only about the actual delivery of health care. The funding would still be public. Nope. The funding would be private. The hospitals would be for-profit enterprises that had investors, just like airlines. These investors would be looking for a return on their investment, just like airlines. Patients who wanted expedited service in "first class" would pay a premium, just like airlines. What the government has said, at least in Alberta, is that anyone could use these hospitals and use their health cards to get service if they were unable to pay privately, but guess where they will be standing in line? Hi cc As near as I understand it the Alberta system is somewhat ambiguous but that plan is probably as dead as Klein's future in politics. The federal Conservative plan allows private facilities but all services would still be paid for publicly with one's health care card. Having said that I'm not convinced that a parallel private system that does allow private funding won't actually bring about improved service in the public plan. From what I understand it works well in Europe but I don't pretend to be particularly knowledgable about it. Cheers Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 see what I mean? I don't think ANYONE can really say what is being planned, or what EXACTLY a new system would even entail. None of us are knowledgable about it. What I do know is we already have a multi-tiered system, whether you like it or not, and it still needs work. I think most will agree that what we have is not good enough and we need improvements, and I, for one, am going to be open minded on any proposed changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 YYC I/C It's nice to know that you are financally well off at your point in life. You do have a choice , any American hospital will gladly take your money and perform any operation you want, at any time. Feel free to spend your money down there as it frees up a space for someone here who can't afford to buy it privately. Perhaps your grandmother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YYC I/C Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 YYC I/C It's nice to know that you are financally well off at your point in life. You do have a choice , any American hospital will gladly take your money and perform any operation you want, at any time. Feel free to spend your money down there as it frees up a space for someone here who can't afford to buy it privately. Perhaps your grandmother? But to take your arguemnet further, what if I decide to leave and take my contribution to the Canadian tax base with me. Who takes care of your grandmother then? Did you ever think of that in your emotion-based response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 but of course if you leave, we will get a replacement for you from our overseas stockpile of folks wanting to live in Canada and pay our taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YYC I/C Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Rattler but of course if you leave, we will get a replacement for you from our overseas stockpile of folks wanting to live in Canada and pay our taxes. You're right. But, the people waiting to come in will not contibute nearly as much to the tax base as the money going offshore. Money and capital always flows to the most efficient destination. Always. Newgirl, You do have a choice , any American hospital will gladly take your money and perform any operation you want, at any time. Feel free to spend your money down there as it frees up a space for someone here who can't afford to buy it privately. Perhaps your grandmother? Should I not be free to spend my money in my country. If I have to go out of the country on the cost side, what incentive do I have to stay here on the revenue side (the tax base)? Would you not prefer I contribute my taxes to the universal system and then pay above and beyond for additional or completely different medical-healthcare services? In the scenario I present in the paragraph above, you would get my tax contribution and, as you say: "free up a space for someone here who can't afford to buy it privately." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 YYC I/C Universal Health Care for all is the fairest system. Two Tier health programs benefit only the people who can afford it. What if 90% of the Doctors decided they would go private? You now have Doctors charging whatever fees they want for services. Personally , I don't want to have to buy heath insurance on top of house, car etc. Emotional , yes I guess I am about health care. I still remember the stories my grandparents told me of living through the Depression years on the prairies. You prayed to God that no one got sick or had an accident because there was no money to pay the Doctor or the hospital. In this ME generation of today , money is the God. I see it all around me ,everyday. I have money so I am important. Some of the ME generation just think they're important regardless. You may have seen it yourself. Our Elite and SuperElite are sometimes ticked off because no preboarding was made for them on a Dash8 or RJ. It doesn't matter that they are paying rock bottom ticket prices- it matters because they are far more important than the rest of the passengers. Two tier is not the way to go, producing more health care workers, equipment and funding from the Government is ! Let every Canadian have equal rights to timely and professional health care. None of this "I have money so I get to move to the front of the waiting list" My belief is that all of us are equal no matter how much money we make. Now if I want Vanity (boobs, eyes etc) plastic surgery then yeah I'll pay for it out of my own pocket. We aren't going to agree on this subject so let's just call it a day OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest woxof Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 A while back I needed an MRI. The waiting list around here in my province is long. So I paid for next day service in the US. Cost me quite a bit of money but it was worth it. And for the unfortunate people in line behind me who can't afford to pay. Well, they went forward that much faster because I left the line. Apparantly you can pay fpr MRI's in Quebec as well. I really don't give a damn how emotional you are about it. I'm going to to my best to change the broken system and keep people like you from meddling in my health by forcing me to stay in a system with ridiculously long lineups. Just so you can cling to an ideology that makes you think you are a good person. I know you are concerned, so I will let you know. I am 100% healthy. Thanks for asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Apparantly you can pay fpr MRI's in Quebec as well. Apparently you can in Ontario as well. A family member who works for Honda was recently injured on the job. Honda wants him back at work ASAP. So they pay for an MRI the VERY NEXT DAY. Consider, professional athletes. When they require one, their employers arrange for the MRI immeadiately. Happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDR Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 You can pay for an MRI in YVR as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Woxof I'm glad to hear your 100% healthy. I'm also glad to hear that you are going to change our broken health system. We need young people with energy to challenge the Fed. Gov and their spending policies on health care. In future I would appreciate that you not attack my character but only my opinions. You don't know me so how can you judge whether I am a good person or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Now if I want Vanity (boobs, eyes etc) plastic surgery then yeah I'll pay for it out of my own pocket. So it's OK to have a private medical facility so you can have a "boob" job but people concerned about a medical issue can't get a private MRI? Too many rules and too many emotions in your arguement to be a sound policy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YYC I/C Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Newgirl, Universal Health Care for all is the fairest system. Two Tier health programs benefit only the people who can afford it. What if 90% of the Doctors decided they would go private? You now have Doctors charging whatever fees they want for services. You may not know this, but many of the good doctors have alreadyleft for the USA and other locales. Allowing me to pay for services above and beyond universal health care may actually attract some of them back. Personally , I don't want to have to buy health insurance on top of house, car etc. Who do you think pays your health care costs now?? If you want ME to continue paying for you, you may want to let me pay for the services I want above and beyond the current system. And you might want to change your attitude and ask nicely. In this ME generation of today , money is the God. I see it all around me ,everyday. I have money so I am important. Some of the ME generation just think they're important regardless. You may have seen it yourself. Our Elite and SuperElite are sometimes ticked off because no preboarding was made for them on a Dash8 or RJ. It doesn't matter that they are paying rock bottom ticket prices- it matters because they are far more important than the rest of the passengers. Two tier is not the way to go, producing more health care workers, equipment and funding from the Government is ! Let every Canadian have equal rights to timely and professional health care. None of this "I have money so I get to move to the front of the waiting list" My belief is that all of us are equal no matter how much money we make. If we're all equal, why don't we pay for health care equally?? Would you be fine with that?? Show mw the dotted line and I would sign today. You're very arrogant and attacking with your views of what to do with other people's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachus...lan_1144211725/ It has appeared the first crack in the capitalist way of healthcare armor has occured. Looks like they're coming up the path of "Universality" after all! Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 YYC I/C I stated previously that we would never agree on this topic. I never suggested that you not spend your hard earned money in what ever way you wanted. We all pay taxes to both Governments. I expect them to deliver health services on a first come, first served basis. Or whoever needs it more than I do , gets first crack at it. Arrogance in my belief , perhaps. Handyman Our province has no private MRI's .We only have 3 MRI's in this province. If I want a "boob" job then I would need to go out of province and pay for it myself. Which I might have to consider soon as everything seems to be going "south" nowadays!!! The Plastic surgeons who remain here are too busy dealing with real emergencies like burn victims or babies born with disformaties. In all honesty and without arrogance , I am appalled at the lack of compassion that some on this site are exhibiting. Most of us on this site make good money and can afford extra health insurance but what about those who cannot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 The phone rang and newgirl answered, "Hello". "Mrs. Reetyrd, please." "Speaking." "Mrs. Reetyrd, this is Doctor Jones at the Medical Testing Laboratory. When your doctor sent your husband's biopsy to the lab yesterday, a biopsy from another Mr. Reetyrd arrived as well, and we are now uncertain which one is your husband's. Frankly the results are either bad or terrible." "What do you mean?" newgirl asked nervously. "Well, one of the specimens tested positive for Alzheimer's and the other one tested positive for AIDS. We can't tell which is your husband's." "That's dreadful! Can't you do the test again?" questioned newgirl. "Normally we can, but Medicare will only pay for these expensive tests one time." "Well, what am I supposed to do now?" "The people at Medicare recommend that you drop your husband off somewhere in the middle of town. If he finds his way home, don't sleep with him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YYC I/C Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Kip, way too funny!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest woxof Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 In future I would appreciate that you not attack my character but only my opinions. You don't know me so how can you judge whether I am a good person or not? I'll attack the character of anyone who wants to force me to use a broken system when it comes to my health. If that is a lack of compassion, then so be it. What I do know is the end result of those who would deny me other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Honestly Kip If God doesn't get you first , keep looking over your shoulder cause I'm right behind him!!!!!!! YYC I/C Stop laughing , he's not funny- he's hilarious!!!!! Cheers, Oldgirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 In all honesty and without arrogance , I am appalled at the lack of compassion that some on this site are exhibiting. Most of us on this site make good money and can afford extra health insurance but what about those who cannot? I fail to see how compassion has anything to do with it? I think we would agree that our health care system is a second/third rate system and certainly not ideal! I would like nothing better than a first rate system available to all Canadians at no cost but, it will NEVER happen! People like you (probably voted NDP), want to deny people who can afford to go private that option which appears to be one of jealousy. I can't afford a BMW so you shouldn't be able to buy one either attitude. Sorry but I find that attitude very...well...British! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Woxof Do not attack my character only my opinions. Handyman I expected more from you. We are talking health care not whether my Roller needs a tune-up! To denigrate me by suggesting I may have voted NDP really annoys me. Its none of your business, How you spend your money is none of my business. I never questioned that. To both of you , I wish you well. I also hope you learn what compassion means, End of post for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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