moeman Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 He did a stupid thing when he was about thirty years old. I wouldn't want to look at the list of stupid things I did at that age. Most MPs aren't elected until they are a lot older. I doubt that there is an MP in the house that didn't do something equally stupid at that age, but he/she wasn't an MP so nobody cared. You might want to cut the guy a little slack. It was wrong but it wasn't fraud or theft. Now, how about the definition of "fraud": fraud Function: noun Etymology: Latin fraud- fraus 1 a : any act, expression, omission, or concealment calculated to deceive another to his or her disadvantage; specifically : a misrepresentation or concealment with reference to some fact material to a transaction that is made with knowledge of its falsity or in reckless disregard of its truth or falsity and with the intent to deceive another and that is reasonably relied on by the other who is injured thereby b : the affirmative defense of having acted in response to a fraud 2 : the crime or tort of committing fraud Sounds fraudulent to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Moeman.... It may look like a duck; quack like a duck; and, walk like a duck but guess what? It isn't. The definition you provided is of course accurare but once you apply the facts to that definition, you'll find they don't quite fit. That is not offered in defense of Jaffer (sp?). His conduct was clearly inappropriate and, in my opinion, should disqualify him from consideration for a senior post regardless of his "youth" at the time of his "indiscretion". He relied upon a poser in order to meet the demands of a busy schedule and in doing so, he knew he was engaged as a party in conduct intended to deceive the radio audience. Lord knows whether any of the audience relied upon that representation to their detriment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccairspace Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Thank you IFG. Appreciate the research. And it tends to confirm my fear that if the Liberals survive the budget vote this afternoon we may be in for a series of childish "let's try to catch them of guard" votes through to summer recess and again in the fall when the House resumes sitting. However, I could be wrong ( ) and if I am, how Mr. Harper handles himself - and the members of his party - in the event of a failed non-confidence vote will go a long way in influencing my opinion of him and his ability to form an effective government in the future. ccairspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky High Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I'm curious to see how the two newfie Tory MP's vote today. They have had a heck of a lot of pressure being put on them from their constituents to pass the budget. I suspect it would be a good road to political suicide if they vote with their party. Guess it just comes down to whether they listen to their party or the people they represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccairspace Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Guess it just comes down to whether they listen to their party or the people they represent. Always the dilemma... as we have seen here as well. Anyone know the time of the vote? Can't seem to find the info on line. cc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA@AC Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Always the dilemma... as we have seen here as well. Anyone know the time of the vote? Can't seem to find the info on line. cc Supposed to be at around 1800 EST, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccairspace Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Supposed to be at around 1800 EST, I believe. Thanks. Just in time to cause pre-dinner indigestion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDR Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Thanks. Just in time to cause pre-dinner indigestion... Hi CC If you don't have indigestion by now then I think you must be immune. Cheers Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Reaction from deep in Conservative Alberta.... Sat, May 21, 2005 Loss dissected Time to let whining begin over Liberals' survival Bell By RICK BELL, CALGARY SUN Et tu, Chuck? Poor Stephen Harper, hoist on his own petard. After the despair of defeat seeps into the skulls of those who picture themselves in power mere days and weeks ago, where will all the vitriol now vent? Which conspiracy will be contrived to account for what has occurred to the Conservatives? Once again down in the national polls, ailing in all-important Ontario, antsy about taking the Liberals to another vote. Can't blame Chuck Cadman. Chuck didn't do a deal. Chuck didn't score a cushy cabinet post. Chuck didn't fish for favours. Chuck is a genuine grassroots good guy who takes to politics after his teenage son is murdered, a dad determined to work for the rights of victims, a most conservative concept. Talk about conservative concepts. Back in the day, Chuck Cadman was a Reform fellow. So he follows the Reform way. Vote with the people and Chuck the one-time Reformer votes the way the majority in his Lower Mainland riding of Surrey North want him to vote. Most don't want an election right now. Many like this Liberal-NDP budget with all sorts of spending for such places as Surrey. So Chuck votes to keep the government going. Old rank-and-file Reformers, and their numbers are legion in Alberta, should be commending Chuck. Slapping him on the back. Democracy in action. Truly inspiring. Way to go, Chuck. Must be tough, though, to be taken down by a guy you dumped. Last election, Chuck the Conservative is a loyal sitting MP, but the Tories decide to dump Chuck who turns around, runs as an independent and the sensible souls of Surrey, not about to be led by the nose, cast their ballots for their Chuck and whip the Tories silly. Then, isn't life strange? This week, Chuck has the final say. Would've been nice to have him on the Conservative side for the big one. Then again, what goes around, comes around. Can't bellyache anymore against Belinda. No points for picking on the former Tory star. Belinda is now seen as the prodigal back with the family. After all, Belinda never hid what few ideas she possesses. She is no conservative, but Tories didn't care. They used her and she used them until the marriage of convenience is no longer convenient for Belinda. Belinda is now like the good daughter who runs with the bad crowd but then tires of them and finally returns home. "Now, dear, we're glad you saw those people for who they were. Your room is just as you left it." If Belinda isn't a prodigal in the beginning she sure is after the Tories, who love her until they lose her, chatter on about her prostituting and whoring herself out. Just when you think the knuckle-draggers are safely in the box marked PREHISTORIC they peep out, foot firmly in mouth. Yes, you can blame Chuck or Belinda or Confederation itself. Play sore loser all you want. But the Liberals outsmarted the Tories. The Liberals offered an election after the Gomery Commission report, ready to run against their own corruption. They brought the NDP on board with a spending budget, allowing themselves an easy out. Aw shucks, we Liberals just want to help little kiddies and po' folks. We want to get on with the business of government. Harper, in opposing at any and all opportunities, paints himself as more pit bull than politician. Silver lining in the dark cloud for Conservatives? If there were an election today, the Tories wouldn't win. So let the whining begin. Allow those who grieve to spout off about a separatism for Alberta that will never happen. It is all so tiresome. Face it. The rest of Canada will not buy into the ideology of official Alberta. The rest of Canada is not, never was and never will be as right wing as the majority here wants. So there is a choice. Become more like the rest of Canada, leave Canada or keep steering to the right and shut up when another one is put in the loss column. Only question. If Alberta ever cuts loose, could we still have Victoria Day as a holiday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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