.70 mach Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 "So for someone starting at AC, they would be looking at 7-10 years before they would start to make more than about 70K? I would be surprised if they get anyone with experience coming with that pay scale as they could make alot more overseas or at the risk of starting an argument, even at WestJet." 70K? That's about a 20 grand raise for almost the entire FO list over at Jazz. Hmmmmmm makes one think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dmb Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Dozerboy, it's not the F/A's that are complaining. Have your daughter apply. In fact, I'm taking a package effective June 1, you can choose to apply as well since there will be at least 1 vacancy. I'm no longer satisfied with my work environment; therefore, I'm leaving. I suggest some of you do the same if you feel as I do. The fact is that I can leave AC and get piad more than what I do now. You can not. Fine get lost. In charge!?!?!.................In charge of pots and pans .............I say OVER PAID!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WF9F Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 "Dozerboy, it's not the F/A's that are complaining." If anyone should not complain about pay, it would be FA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 If there is already an established pay rate written into your contract, then what is all the squawking about? You now will be sitting down with management to deal wih the situation. If the formula is in your contract, then supposedly ACPA agreed to it. You will be paid based on the formula that ACPA agreed to. If there is a discrepency between ACPA and the company about this formula, take it to Teplitsky. Hopefully there are some cooler heads within ACPA that see these new acft orders as being good for it's members. I could not agree more there C.A. Yes, it has been agreed to like so many other parts of our contract. I have no problem with using the already defined formula. BUT, and it is a very big BUT, the company I will 1000% (no typo) guarantee it, will come back and say that this is not realistic and present a low-ball offer, probably equivalent to the B767 rates. That is where the trouble lies, and all this discussion stems from. I will also guarantee that if the company agrees to the existing formula determination of the B777 or B787 payrate, there will not be 1 complaint from ANY ACPA member. There was recently a feel good meeting between Mr. Brewer and ACPA officials and it was stressed that better relations between the two camps would be beneficial to everybody. If the company truly believes that, then this pay rate issue would be a fine place to start. Their track record indicates otherwise however. AIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 The poopfest in this thread developed with an F/A posting about greedy pilots Actually, it came about when you guys threatened to scuttle the whole thing if you didn't get your way. ExGXer: see ACPA has not given their approval for this order, so I would not put too much faith in the press release Homerun: if management expects that the pilot group will subsidize the purchase of these aircraft with a reduced rate of pay, they are sadly mistaken and Homerun again: the aircraft won't move until there is a pay rate I had the nerve to call you guys on it and it's obvious to me that you don't take kindly to a lowly flight attendant talking back to you. I never called you overpaid but perhaps greedy could be inferred from some of the comments I made. So be it. As witnessed by many of the other comments here, I don't think I'm alone in that thought. We're all fortunate to be where we are doing what we enjoy and getting paid fairly well considering everything we've been through. The extra job security that this purchase could add to the equation is a bonus. If it ever gets to the point where we no longer enjoy working here, we can all do as YYC I/C has done and move on. To YYC I/C, Good luck to you my friend. Let's get together for some golf this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictues Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 How do you know 100% that it won't change? If they did their homework properly and assumed the formula when working out expected costs of the B777/B787 they could change, plus if ACPA has the conflict resalution wouldn't the arbatraitor favour to the pilots side as the language is there and agreed to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 CP FA, Flt Ops management is well aware of what is going on with crew sked. Therein lies the problem. Many pilots have taken to carring the TC enforcement number with them when they go to work. I can assure you they are getting lots of calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 CP FA, Flt Ops management is well aware of what is going on with crew sked. Therein lies the problem Have you ever actually had a conversation with anyone in Flt Ops management about this, or are you just going by what you have heard on the line? Flt Ops management may be aware of the problem, but that doesn't mean that they condone it. If you have a problem with crew sked, especially if they are violating CARS, you should report it to your manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 CP FA, crew sked deal with the contract day in and day out, that is all they do, they are the experts. That being said, they are either 1) completley incompetent, 2) very stupid, or 3) are being directed to lie, twist, cheat and disregard it. You know as well as I that it is #3 and since crew sked falls under the umbrella of flt ops, they are not only aware of it, they are directing it. Recently crew sked was forced by TC intervention to replace a f/o for a YVR-Asia flight to avoid a CARS violation. TC was called by a pilot on his day off who noticed the illegal crewing. This is the point it has gotten to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropzone Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 The job one decides to embrace must include what one wants as far as.... life style, location... retirement ..benefits..etc etc. Actually Kip I think the risk has increased dramatically that AC or for that matter any airline will be able to maintain those kinds of perks/benefits. At the very least SECURITY for your career is a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 27, 2005 Author Share Posted April 27, 2005 Actually Kip I think the risk has increased dramatically that AC or for that matter any airline will be able to maintain those kinds of perks/benefits. At the very least SECURITY for your career is a thing of the past. Agree wholeheartedly with your statements but there is no choice but to go with the changes...... or move on. I think there is still a sense of security in AC, but only if one is in at least the top 50%. The thing that has always puzzled me were the remarks from the very junior fellows who felt they had "entitlement" to their job no matter which way the wind blew. It is very hard to convince some that just because one is hired that they will NEVER be let go. Security/benefits/pensions/perks will never be what they were back in the 70-80s and early 90's. Those that were just hired in those years are having a hard time adjusting to the new way of doing business as they were hired in the "glory" days and for some, accepting what is now happening to the industry is incomprehensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 You know as well as I that it is #3 and since crew sked falls under the umbrella of flt ops, they are not only aware of it, they are directing it. I know as well as you do that it is #3, do I? So, does that mean I'm part of some big conspiracy? Obviously, you are going to believe what you want, so discussing this with you is a waste of my time. For anyone else who may be interested, if you have a problem with crew sked lying about the contract, or violating CARS, let a manager know. They can't do anything about it if it isn't documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Cp fa, I'm certain that the pilots are in nearly constant contact with management over this. Line managers are hiding behind the water coolers to avoid us, and the VP flight ops (Downey) is refusing to return any calls from ACPA reps to deal with the systemic problems. It's not just a perception by the line pilots - it's real. And a real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist Buzz, but if you really think that the line managers are "hiding behind the water coolers", you can always PM me, and I'll see that it makes it into the hands of the management guy who's looking into it. Sounds to me like its time for Rainer to insist that all communications between pilots and crew sked be recorded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 That's how it's done with IFS. Helps keep things professional on both ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 CP FA you're not getting it. You are making the assumption that the upper echelons of Flt Ops behave in an ethical fashion. The MLO's are powerless in this matter. It is coming from higher up. Follow the org chart and see who crewsked reports to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I am not making that assumption at all. All I'm saying is that it is being looked at, but without documentation, it's just rumours and hearsay. If it happens to you, report it to your manager, and if you don't trust him to follow through, cc Rainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Driven Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 "NWA to be the first North American Airline to put the 787 into revenue service." First deliveries to be in 2008. http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q2/nr_050505g.html Northwest Airlines 787 order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Thanks for realigning this thread Steam Driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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