Kip Powick Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 More from the G and M on the AC vs WJ issue http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040409.wxrair0409/BNStory/Business/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 "Mark searches and cultivates data from a number of sources to give WestJet a competitive advantage. He has all the technology gadgets (i.e. BlackBerry) to keep him wired to what's going on in the world. He is easily stimulated into writing significantly long messages over e-mail and frequents on-line chat rooms under a number of [sic] alias." Danny Dog? Lancaster? Nice to finally put a face to the name. http://www.cbr.ca/PersonProfile.aspx?PersonID=15737 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dwb yyc Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Where oh where is Clive in this whole thing. This is the guy that is all over the press when it time to bash AC, but he is no where to be seen. Didn't like getting caught with his fingers in the pie. Can not put a spin on this one. Come on Clive, I want to know what you think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dwb yyc Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Do you think that I could phone Westjet Res and find out what the loads on AC215 were like. The employee website seems to be a little busy at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjaer Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 all we would tell youis that there is at least nine seats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 The first quote from the article: >>RCMP Superintendent John Sliter said Thursday that Air Canada officials recently contacted the RCMP's new white-collar crime unit. He said he was not at liberty to discuss the nature of what Air Canada wanted to discuss but said the airline decided not to meet with the RCMP after all. "They did suggest they wanted to talk to us, but then they changed their mind," he said. "We may or may not meet with them," he said. "I'm not sure what's going to happen."<< What is it then? Are we evil or not? Gee maybe that got the media spotlight off the never ending CCAA extensions? Another pearl of an AC quote: >>For example, Air Canada alleges WestJet's recent move from Hamilton to Toronto as its hub "was a result of WestJet's knowledge of Air Canada's loads out of Toronto," Monte Brewer, an executive vice-president at Air Canada, alleges in an affidavit filed in court.<< Duh? 'Ya think loads might be better out of YYZ? That's about the stupidest statement I have read. I would think that when nothing comes of this WJ will have plenty of ammo for a libel countersuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neo Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 If Air Canada spread false and damaging claims about WestJet or its employees, then WestJet would have a strong case for a counter-suit. Everyone knows that, and that's why the essentials of the case are likely as they've been stated. I'd say that Air Canada had a choice whether to pursue the matter through the RCMP, in which case it would become a potentially criminal matter, or to pursue it as a civil action. Looks like they chose the latter. If they shoe were on the other foot, I would expect WestJet to protect their proprietary company information vigorously, and make some public relation's capital out of it in the bargain. Just like Air Canada is doing. neo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sustainable Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 It is unfortunate how much sense this all makes. I suspect that Mr. Beddoe is spending the weekend at the taylor's getting fitted for asbestos pants. The irony here is that the information was likely redundant to a good overal business strategy. Mr. Hill's alledged abuse of Mr. Lafond's travel privilege is the flying equivalent of buzzing the field with your airliner. Except in this case the seats at the back are filled with your stakeholders, employees and investors, neither of whom would particularly want you getting your jollies at their expense in their airplane. The issue of spending so much time under an alias at this site is indicative of a sub-adult sense of priority. Perhaps there should be a caveat when you obtain a handle here that emphasizes the forum is for employees, not owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 You would think though that if there was something criminal there that AC would pursue it if for no other reason then good public relations. That way Air Canada could have another boogey man to blame along with all the current reasons why they are failing now, union issues, Sars, 9-11, fuel prices, government meddling, Gery Schwarz, etc, instead of the fact that thier business plan simply no longer works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saymach# Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Mav you are really true to form. WJ good, AC bad. Funny, as posted above, ole Clyde can never wait to spin a story (factual or otherwise) why so silent now ??? Don't lend us the "its before the courts" line, that has never stopped him before. By the way T1 New is very nice, it is expensive but nice. A Tim Horotn's would have been nice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Maybe their business plan is more successful that you think. Look what it 'allegedly' did for WestJet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Altitude Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 All indications are that the business plan is working. I would say enjoy your last laugh West Jet, because the tide is about to turn against you - big time. AC costs are now in line with revenue, nice new A319s are to be deployed to ZIP, a fleet of cost effective EMB-90s and 70s to go point to point across Canada and to the US, and now the ethical high ground. West Jet's days of growth are over IMO. Let's face it, a lot of growth WJ has enjoyed this year is only people hedging their bets against AC leaving them stranded. Once it is clear AC is going to survive (it is now but the public need to see us out of CCAA to understand themselves), they will return in droves to AC. Stand by for the contraction of WJ as AC wins back customer share with service, class and loyalty. Maybe taking your pay in stock wasn't such a bright idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky High Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Give me a break will ya? I've been hearing that for a long time now.. Still ain't happening. I suggest you worry more about how to help get your own company back on its feet than tell me that the one I work for is going down. People returning in droves to AC? Seems to me WJ was gaining market share before AC went into protection.. What makes you think they will return in droves after? AC has a long way to go yet before they can compete with WJ in the matter of costs so lets just wait and see what happens. I for one will continue to buy stock in my company until such a time as I see any need to stop.. And I am not seeing that anytime in the near future. Sky High Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjaer Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 You may not even have a company to compete with us in to months. I don't wish job loss on anyone but I think you are in a crappy position to say that we will have troubles in the future. The plan with Zip and the ERJ's sound good but it has to be done with other investors money. There is currently no investor for you. I wish the bitterness between the two companies could stop. I hope all you AC folks have a bright future ahead. The winners if both companies are healthy are all of us. good luck in the future AC. As far as this lawsuit goes we will see what the court says was the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Washington Irving Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I remember about a year ago when the WJ boss went on camera in the news and publicly said,with that cheshire grin, that he will bring AC to it's knees within a year... You don't think he was aware of what was going on do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I agree with everything other than the criminal charges. Why would AC not pursue this criminally? If it's true then they would have the ultimate coup de'grace public relations speaking. What really galls me is the garbage pilfering, is nothing sacred? Nobody should have to have that kind of cloak-and-dagger stuff happening at home. Disgusting, whoever was doing it. P.S. Off to murder some Dungeness crabs, I'll be back in a few beers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 "All indications are that the business plan is working." ????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I am not sure what indications you see that the plan is working, you may see indications that others do not so who am I to argue, your opinion is yours. I think your analysis is off base however. People will travel wherever they can get the best fare, to say that people will come back in droves out of "loyalty" seems to me a misguided opinion. As evidenced by many comments from AC employees on this board it seems that there is still the perception of AC customer service agents being poor in their attitude with the public. What magic elixir is going to turn these people into agents who care about what they are doing? AC was losing market share before CCAA and will continue to do so, at least domestically. RM says there is going to be less focus on domestic ops. What business plan exactly is it that is going to bring people back in droves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Altitude Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I firmly believe that we have seen the turning point this week. AC attitudes will change as they see hope and realize that their futures are secure and they will start to care again. Donot underestimate the postive effect Calin's departure will have on employee moral. The business plan is working, AC is profitable, and with the A319s and EM90s, we will be cheeper cost wise and will be able to offer the lowest fares and the best service. Business will come back for the aeroplan points. And the Star alliance connections will entice the other business travelers to come back. Air Canada delivers a better, classier, broader service than WJ can ever dream of providing and we will do it as cheeply as well. We have built it and they are coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Wow!! If you had reversed the AC and WJ in that post you would have umpteen recommendations to get off the "koolaid" That being said I hope AC does get there act together so we can have some healthy competition but there is much more for AC to do before you can start shooting your mouth off. Get out of CCAA and show us something first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flapsforty Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Excuse me, but are you in Canada? Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Boy for Pele Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Everyone is sweating it out now that Victor Li has wihdrawn his millions.. If THAT is part of the business plan, then you are correct...It IS working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Boy for Pele Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Here's the business plan working like a charm: However, Air Canada has said it was forced to revise its business plan in the face of higher fuel costs, increased domestic competition from WestJet and Jetsgo, and smaller-than-expected savings from labour agreements negotiated with its unions last year. The airline, under creditor protection since April 1, 2003, said last week that its 2003 loss totalled $1.9 billion and more than $4 billion since its last profitable year, 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybye Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Yeah......it taught them how NOT to run an airline!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest glowplug Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I don't get it - AC doesn't want to meet with the RCMP. Some thing to hide perhaps? wasn't the guy who ratted on Mark Hill an ex AC employee working at WestJet - Hmmm. All you have to read is Max Ward's book to see how squeeky clean AC is. My bet is that this whole suit is bunch of high priced lawyers trying to get their last billings in before their meal ticket disappears over the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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