Teamsters trying to unionize Westjet FA's

[CanadaEH]

Effort on to unionize WestJet flight attendants

CALGARY (CBC) - The Teamsters are trying to sign up WestJet's flight attendants in an attempt to become the first union at the discount airline.

A spokesman for the union says they were contacted by disgruntled employees, who want better wages and job security. But most industry watchers don't think the union has a chance, because even though WestJet's wages are lower, it offers profit-sharing and plans to help employees buy shares.

"In WestJet's case, they've been very, very smart about managing the culture, selecting the people with can-do, get-up-and-go attitudes, and ensuring everybody in the organization benefits from profit-sharing," Douglas Reed, a Queen's Univeristy professor who studies the airline industry, said.

WestJet's third-quarter results, released Monday, show profits up 40 per cent.

A similar attempt by CUPE to unionize the flight attendants in 1998 failed.

WestJet spokeswoman Siobhan Vinnish is confident the employees will reject the union attempt.

"At this point in time, we think we've been successful the way we are," she said. "And we hope our communications between all our people are strong and effective. That it works well for our company and our culture."

[Guest Operation Bomberclad]

Imo, the Teamsters will win the day at Wetjest, since there is an obvious need, and a bunch of F/A's were fired for union activity.

A very strong sign things are not as rosy as they are depicted in the press.

What a scandalous hoopla would be created in the Aspers' domain if the truth were to be printed somewheres!!

:[

OB

[wjaer]

The teamsters have been trying for years. After the fine work they did hekping bankrupt both A/C Jazz and United (not to mention US air) I am sure we can do just fine without them. The teamsters are cut throat and they only care about getting new union dues because they are losing members worldwide. Do you think the Teamsters have my best interest at heart?

WJAER

[Guest Roadie]

Helped bankrupt A/C Jazz , what are you smoking? Jazz had their ducks in a row with all of the unions involved long before CCAA, you think CUPE would have done better? If you are happy with your job that is fine, obviously not everyone is or else there wouldn't be an interest in a union, when the time comes I am sure you will be able put forward your belief in the way of a vote, the old saying of the airline gets the union it deserves has always been true. Time will tell and your employee group will decide for themselves if the interest is there or not.

[Jumpy]

This stoty has been making the rounds at all the major newspapers over the past 8 months. It's old news! I think it's the teamsters attempting to keep the flame alive when in fact it's already been taken care of. I haven't flown with ONE F/A that is interested in a union, not one.

[Guest AME]

Admitting that you're interested in a union at WestJet, is kinda like voting Liberal in the west, you may have done it, but you wouldn't want your friends to know

[Guest sanders]

Teamsters are about the worst thing that can happen at WJA. Hopefully are young FAs dont succumb to the crap they have to offer!!

[CanadaEH]

A bunch of FA's were fired? Where's the proof of that? Believe it or not, there is a HAPPY world outside of Jazz/Air Canada. Since 1998 unions have been trying to unionize Westjet with no luck - why do you think that is? If any part of Westjet wants to unionize that's fine. Unionization = no profit share and no employee share purchase program. That was threatened to be taken away back in 1998 and it will continue to be used as a threat in the future.

Unions are nothing more than thirsty leeches. As long as there's blood out there unions will always try to unionize Westjet.

[Guest M. McRae]

Hmmm so rather than allowing the staff to unionize if they want, they are threatened with loss of purchase options..... So much for following the Southwest model. I would have thought since Westjet is such a good place to work that there would be no fear of unionization in the first place. Go Figure

[Guest Operation Bomberclad]

Sanders, you are speaking through an orifice located on your posterior, as usual.

I wonder how the "young" replacements that are hired after F/A's get fired for trying to execercise their rights feel when they will expend the energy of their youth working for sub par wages and working conditions, when bankrupt airlines may offer something better. Remember Southwest Airlines F/A's saying that?

Not that ours are the greatest anymore, but F/A's at Wetjest always want a peek at our contract(or Transat who are paid more or AC who are paid at least 40% more). The new printup will be soon, so I guess there will be a few copies floating around Wetjest in the next few weeks.

One big bonus to having a union: no reliance on company shares AND NO MORE HAVING TO FAKE A SMILE TO SAVE YOUR JOB!!!!

:[

OB

[Maverick]

Franny, what have you been told about playing nice in the sandbox?

(reaching for newspaper) :@

[CanadaEH]

What do bankrupt airlines offer? Pay cuts? Job security? High morale? Bitter, elderly employees?

One big bonus to having a union: Protect those who have to "force a smile" (what's to smile about anyway?) and shed thousands of jobs when in bankruptcy protection. Life isn't all about money, my friend. Enjoy growing old, being bitter, and wishing you had never joined your mismanaged company in the first place.

[Guest AME]

FYI

I talked to a teamster rep and I was told they haven't made any moves on the WJ F/As since last Oct (a year ago) and that the story might have originated from YYC as a reminder of the reprecussions (sp?) of becoming unionized. Further more, FYI, I was also informed that there have been more than a few people call them.

So while you may not have much use for the teamsters or unions (not that I have either:( ) doesn't mean it isn't happening or it isn't going to happen

Brett

[Guest Operation Bomberclad]

Ok, so how does your comment here come off as being anything less than rather bitter and reproachful, my friend?

Put all of your stock in one company and you'll believe that the world is out to get you.

Yes you're right, the future looks bleak- but not because I am afraid Wetjest is taking my job away. The mothercorp has done a great job of firing the youngest workers at their functioning cost-effective operation, parked 30 jets and basically condemned them to exile from the industry, because Wetjest unfairly won't take them on.

I put it down to economics, where the younger you are, the less likely you will have a chance at the jobs the older workers had with the same job protections and a union to back you up.

:[

OB

[Guest Operation Bomberclad]

Yawn

[60N30W]

CanadaEH

I have no desire to debate the need for a union, everyone has there own ideas. I am curious as to why you are against the idea of your F/As being represented by a union? I am gambling that you are a pilot, so how would your day to day ops be affected? I think you would still get a cup of coffee.

Regards,

60N30W

[Guest Roadie]

Thirsty leeches??? OH but the company that pays mileage with no guaranteed minimum sitting in Churchill for a week while there is a blizzard blowing , making $25.00 a day isn't sucking me dry?? Listen , you don't want a union no problem, you don't have to have one or vote for one, but lets not forget why they were developed in the first place. Also your statement regarding no profit share and no employees share purchase plan are inaccurate ,perhaps with WestJet they are but other collective bargaining units have been able to negotiate both of them , also you currently don't have an official pension plan.

The good thing is the decision to have a union or not won't be decided by you alone , the rest of your employee group will together make that decision.

[Guest Operation Bomberclad]

Capitalism has to be in deep trouble if instead of offering its workers cold, hard currency as good as gold and at a premium wage, has to resort to a daily diet of stock speculation jammed down your throat and a promisory stock option on one single company that can lose its value as quickly as it multiples.

And that under threat, no less.

That is called market fundamentalism, and nobody gets their needs answered by bowing to it. Women working as flight attendants get enough thrown at them via their managements and dis-appreciated by customers to the point where unionization is the only option. Its an exercise in self-esteem, chum and says that no woman will allow the majority male pilots and management of a company to define who they are.

That's the most surprising thing about F/A unions.

That's why unions exist in the first place, my friend. Much as people like to say Wetjesters' F/A's are happy, there is a need to be filled to make the company answer for its mistakes.

:[

OB

[Guest CDB]

I guess my dilemma with the union issue is that I don't really think it's a union issue. There are both unionized and non-unionized airlines that exhibit a healthy relationship between management and employees, as well as a positive work environment and good working conditions.

My question to those involved is then, do you think Air Canada's apparent communication problems between management and employees would go away if the airline wasn't unionized? And conversely (yes I am using AND ), do you think Westjet's apparent success at maintaining a healthy relationship among both groups would deteriorate if it was unionized? My answer would be no to both the former and latter, because I don't think it's necessarily a union issue.

CDB

[Guest Simcoe]

Hey, Boomerdud, thing's a little lonely down at the union hall? It must be because of all the laid off members you've so ably protected over the last year or two or the paycuts every one has had to endure.

That's a riot. Wages keep moving north at WJ. So do per diems. No layoffs ever at WJ during the worst 3 years ever in the history of the business. In fact, they'll hire about 240 more flight attendants next year.

I'm told by sources more reliable than you could ever know, they work about 17 days a month with a total pay averaging in the mid $40K range over the past few years, not including stock appreciation. The benefit plan is second to none.

But don't ask me about the value of the union. Ask the flight attendants at C3000 or Royal.....

Shouldn't you be spending time representing the United Buggywhip Workers of America? I hear things are a little slow down there too.

[Guest Operation Bomberclad]

Labour leaders speak very strongly on the subject of improvements to lifestyle and pay, but they also provide a structure where a company reaps the rewards of organization.

But nobody believes that or seems to remember the point. It all starts when people begin to stand up for themselves and find that others have chosen the same risk and demand to assert their rights.

I think both the mothercorp and Wetjest are unfair examples for comparison, because they both have a culture of priviledge that seeks to defend itself to the detriment of the operation. This also undermines productivity/creates conflict as well. That is, of course, imo. (Why else would the company fire workers for asserting their rights?) Management extremism should be discouraged at all levels, but unfortunately airlines are rife with it.

The regional operation does not have this culture of priviledge, since we are all regarded as second-class citizens. Union support remains strong, however because of a peculiar fetish for individualising management problems and offloading it onto lower paid front line workers, as well as a desperately ill-advised habit of disrepecting fairly negotiated agreements which are legally binding. (How can a company demand major concessions and turn around and not respect even in a token fashion, its very own demands?)

Individualising management problems are practically unavoidable and in any group there will be scapegoating, but a fair discourse set out in the defense of a union member is far better than the individual facing the company by themselves.

So that is why I believe that unions start with asserting your self-esteem, and not demands for money.

Thanks for the question, though!

:[

OB

[Guest Operation Bomberclad]

Thanks for the info on F/A earnings, I will be sure to apply a lot of pressure to the union representation when they go to management in the next round of negotiations.

But as always, anything coming from a Wetjest booster like yourself is sheer exaggeration. Your whole pyramid is built on hubris and hot air.

:[

OB

[Guest kevbert]

Bomberclad said:

"Imo, the Teamsters will win the day at Wetjest, since there is an obvious need, and a bunch of F/A's were fired for union activity."

What is the "obvious need?" I believe unions were started to protect workers from unfair working conditions (I think it was asbestos workers....or was it children working in coal mines?). Where in WJ have you heard or seen working conditions that equate to this?

You should know as well as I that the line "firing employees for union activity" is a classic line used in the heavy spin involved in any organizing drive.

Maybe you should have said that the teamsters will win the day becuase "the mutated union machine hasn't gotten it's claws into a group of employees to bilk it out of membership dues."

Yours in solidarity.

[Maverick]

Save your breathe Simcoe, bummerdud is just a bitter F/A that knows that he will never get anything more than what his hourly rate is. The concept of actual worth is alien to him. What I mean by this is a flight attendant is not a trade or a skill, it is or should be treated as an entry level, customer service position only. Yes they have safety training, but statistically speaking 30% of them (and the general public as well) will fold up like a stack of cards in an actual emergency anyway, being no use to anyone at that point. Interestingly on that point, males are slightly more likely to freeze than females in those situations. (one of those documentary shows on discovery channel, a couple of years back)

But I digress, IMO WJ F/A's are payed a fair wage (95% of industry standard) and then can give themselves an instant 20% raise through ESOP (as we all can) plus profit share which has ALWAYS been good. $40,000-$50,000 a year is pretty common but dont tell him that.

If the WJ F/A's unionize then so be it, but at that point they will be payed industry standard without risk of downturns in the economy or the gains that come to the rest of us when boom times re-appear. They should not be eligible for profit share or ESOP if they negotiate industry standard wages, period. No risk, no reward.

Capitalism at its finest.

[CanadaEH]

I know that unions are a hot issue (either pro or against) so I will not get into a debate either. My reason for being against unionization of any part of Westjet (not just the FA's) are simply that I don't like what unions are about. In the world today, people are either for or against unions and I choose to be against - plain and simple.