More about ... Annnnnd

[Kip Powick]

Starting a sentence with “And” seems to fall into two camps…those that say “no way” and those that say it is OK. Item # 1 is from two well respected writers in the UK. Item # 2 is from an unknown source but I believe the author is American. My conclusion is that I guess no one really cares…except those that sense it is wrong to start a PX with “And”…. And there you have it

ITEM 1

It is an archaic formulation: "And did those feet, in ancient time Walk upon England's mountains green....etc" Now that the word "and" is used as a conjunction, its archaic use for emphasis has fallen into disuse.

If the sentence follows another the use of "And" conveys a continuation of the idea in the previous sentence. As such it suggests that there should not be a separate sentence.

It is not correct to start a sentence with the word 'And', a sentence should be understandable on it's own, the prefixing of the word 'And' requires you to know the contents of the previous sentence in order to understand the one that starts with the word 'And'.

I have sometimes seen this kind of mistake in American books where anything seems to be correct.

ITEM # 2

A-student types who memorized everything their English teachers said insist that coordinating conjunctions cannot begin sentences. If editors ever try to feed you such wrongheadedness, throw these gems their way: "And God said, Let there be light; and there was light." (Courtesy, the Old Testament.) "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." (Courtesy, Mark Twain.) "And after all the weather was ideal. They could not have had a more perfect day for a garden-party if they had ordered it." (Courtesy, Katherine Mansfield).

[Guest neo]

"It is not correct to start a sentence with the word 'And', a sentence should be understandable on it's own, the prefixing of the word 'And' requires you to know the contents of the previous sentence in order to understand the one that starts with the word 'And'."

Now that's interesting. He says you should not start a sentence with a connective word that requires you to understand the contents of the previous sentence. Yet he does it twice in the brief passage you quoted with the word "it".

Sometimes starting a sentence with a connective word works, often it won't. I like the observation of the second writer. A sentence either reads well, or it doesn't. You just have to look at the first writers comments to confirm that.

neo

[IFG]

Hi, neo - Re: "Yet he does it [starts a sentence with a connective word] twice in the brief passage you quoted with the word 'it'. " - I'm many a year from English Grammar class, but (thank god that follows a comma) dim recollection leads me to think that "it" is a pronoun (as in he, she, it) rather than a conjunction (... and, or, but etc).

That said, I do agree with your comments on how well various writing styles work. And for that matter, I also agree that a sentence either reads well, or it doesn't, regardless of its construction. But of course, not everybody will see it that way. Yet the language evolves, and people adapt to that. Or sometimes they don't.

Cheers, IFG

[IFG]

Hi, neo - Re: "Yet he does it [starts a sentence with a connective word] twice in the brief passage you quoted with the word 'it'. " - I'm many a year from English Grammar class, but (thank god that follows a comma) dim recollection leads me to think that "it" is a pronoun (as in he, she, it) rather than a conjunction (... and, or, but etc).

That said, I do agree with your comments on how well various writing styles work. And for that matter, I also agree that a sentence either reads well, or it doesn't, regardless of its construction. But of course, not everybody will see it that way. Yet the language evolves, and people adapt to that. Or sometimes they don't.

Cheers, IFG

[IFG]

Hi, neo - Re: "Yet he does it [starts a sentence with a connective word] twice in the brief passage you quoted with the word 'it'. " - I'm many a year from English Grammar class, but (thank god that follows a comma) dim recollection leads me to think that "it" is a pronoun (as in he, she, it) rather than a conjunction (... and, or, but etc).

That said, I do agree with your comments on how well various writing styles work. And for that matter, I also agree that a sentence either reads well, or it doesn't, regardless of its construction. But of course, not everybody will see it that way. Yet the language evolves, and people adapt to that. Or sometimes they don't.

Cheers, IFG

[Guest neo]

I agree wholeheartedly with your general comments.

To clarify, the writer that I took to task was complaining about the use of a conjunctive word to begin a sentence, because, in his own words, "...a sentence should be understandable on it's own, the prefixing of the word 'And' requires you to know the contents of the previous sentence..."

My point is that it doesn't matter whether the leading word is a conjuction, pronoun, or whatever... if it requires you to know what's in the previous sentence, then clarity can be diminished. This is what the writer is complaining about, yet he does precisely that in the passage quoted. Just read:

"It is an archaic formulation: "And did those feet, in ancient time Walk upon England's mountains green....etc""

In this case, the leading "it" requires of you exactly what he's condemns with a leading "and".

And while it's [] been a while since I took English myself, I do recall some advice which I see ignored all the time, especially in newspapers: avoid beginning a sentence with the word "it", and at all costs avoid beginning a paragraph with "it".

Best wishes,

neo

[Guest neo]

I agree wholeheartedly with your general comments.

To clarify, the writer that I took to task was complaining about the use of a conjunctive word to begin a sentence, because, in his own words, "...a sentence should be understandable on it's own, the prefixing of the word 'And' requires you to know the contents of the previous sentence..."

My point is that it doesn't matter whether the leading word is a conjuction, pronoun, or whatever... if it requires you to know what's in the previous sentence, then clarity can be diminished. This is what the writer is complaining about, yet he does precisely that in the passage quoted. Just read:

"It is an archaic formulation: "And did those feet, in ancient time Walk upon England's mountains green....etc""

In this case, the leading "it" requires of you exactly what he's condemns with a leading "and".

And while it's [] been a while since I took English myself, I do recall some advice which I see ignored all the time, especially in newspapers: avoid beginning a sentence with the word "it", and at all costs avoid beginning a paragraph with "it".

Best wishes,

neo

[ChicoChico]

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness.… Didn't hurt Dickens in this the opening sentence of "A Tale of Two Cities"

[dragon]

and, the discussion continues.. or rather..

and, and the discussion continues…

and and a great discussion it it..

[Guest neo]

Charles Dickens? That hack?

There isn't any rule about writing well that a good writer can't break. The best writers not only break them but make a breathtaking read out of it. In the hands of a genius like Charles Dickens, (and I do not use the word lightly) almost anything is possible.

As a rule, really good writers break the rules infrequently and in doing so, do so to great effect. Not that I've checked, but Charles Dickens might never have started another sentence in that book with the word, "it". And in part, that's what makes his use of that device sound so compelling. It []grabs you and pulls you in by the scruff of the neck because the author says, to hell with the rules, HERE'S what needs to be said.

That's the difference between an amateur like you or I, and a great writer.

neo

[ChicoChico]

And just who you callin an amateur boy??!!

[Guest abc]

Neo,

You said "That's the difference between an amateur like you or I"

Did you mean to write "you and me"?

You must be one of those guys who went flyin' when everyone else went schoolin'

[IFG]

Re: "avoid beginning a sentence with the word "it" - IMHO, most such restrictions reflect the preference of teachers over writers; reminds me of the tale about Churchill, who, when admonished not to end a sentence with a preposition, said that was the sort of pedantic nonsense "up with which I will not put."

In fairness to the writer of Item [1] in Kip's post, it's probably taken out of a context which makes clear exactly what is an archaic formulation. That being so, using a neutral pronoun in place of a repetitive phrase is a favour to the reader. As such, the sentence stands on its own, "it" serving as just a contraction for the subject. His second instance, "It is not correct..." is of course a simple declarative, or statement of affairs.

But (oops) that doesn't diminish the style and readability in Item [2], as you say, and at no loss of clarity, which is the only reason for grammatical rigidity IMO.

Of course if you get into parsing out what the phrase "it is" means, particularly the 2nd word (not in the Clintonian way, tho'), it can take you down some alleys. Some followers of Korzybski (one of the "fathers" of semantics) developed "e-primer", which avoids any use of the verb "to be", which apparently has no translation in many languages; this of course removes the passive voice, and curtails the use of labels and declaratives. Of course, it's also problematic for the whole obsession of western philosophy with the nature of "being". Anyway, many found their writing gained clarity and focus, if seeming a bit stilted at first.

More than enough prattle on that tho' ('tis another late night...) Cheers, IFG

But (oops again) if you got this far, perhaps you'll ponder the musings of some noted philosophers and observers of the human condition:

• "To be is to do"--Socrates.
• "To do is to be"--Jean-Paul Sartre.
• "To be or not to be" --William Shakespeare
• "Do be do be do"--Frank Sinatra
• "I am what I do" --Martin Buber
• "I yam what I yam" --Popeye

[Guest neo]

Blame dr1. He talked me out of too many classes to go skiing.

[Guest neo]

I believe you'll find that most good writers are in that category because they know when and how to break the rules, not because they ignore them willy-nilly. It's child's play to come up with examples of exceptions to every rule of writing; but it's not child's play to know when those exceptions should be used to create the effect you want, or to make your phrase pleasing to the mind or ear.

I may not have clearly stated the point I was trying to make regarding the first author's grammatical complaint. I don't much care that he starts his sentences with "it", or "and", or anything else. I was pointing out that he demands no sentence begin with a word ("and" in this case) which requires the reader to refer to the previous sentence. "A sentence should be understandable on it's [sic] own..." in his words. The first time it's used to begin a sentence, "it" refers to some previous comment he's made. Well why would that be OK for "it", but not for "and"?

In the second case where he begins a sentence with "it", the pronoun is pointless and vague. The sentence should read, "Beginning a sentence with the word "and" is incorrect." This is a direct and declarative way of stating your point. His manner, to my ear, is maladroit.

Thanks very kindly for your interesting comments and discussion.

neo

[Mitch Cronin]

It isn't easy to create hard and fast rules to writing style, that won't soon be best broken. And it would stifle creativity in writing to attempt to do so.

plthththth

I had an "English" teacher once who insisted a paragraph required 3 sentences. To that, and many other notions of rigidity that would, in my opinion, seriously hinder some beautiful writing, I offer what I believe to be a perfectly valid, single word paragraph.

Bollocks.

[Guest Gino Under]

From a well respect piece of prose....The Holy Bible....I quote from Ruth.

"And Ruth said entreat me not to leave thee.

Nor to return from following after thee.

For wither thou goest, I will go."

etc. etc. etc.

so it would seem acceptable.

One final thought. (British) English grammar doesn't necessarily set the standard.

(did he start a sentence with parenthesis???)

:-) ;-)

good gawd

[Innuendo]

I offer what I believe to be a perfectly valid, single word paragraph.

Bollocks.

Thought a sentence needed a verb?

[Innuendo]

"I offer what I believe to be a perfectly valid, single word paragraph.

Bollocks."

An A for clarity of expression but I thought that you needed a verb to complete a sentence.

[Guest abc]

It's tough.

I liked Apex, except when the road was blocked.

Was it Lost (or Last) mountain which was great at night?

Then there are the "others" that everyone has heard of.

[Guest neo]

On the contrary!

neo

[Guest neo]

So true.

There's guidelines, recommendations, observations, etc, etc, etc... but rules? They're for braver or smarter souls than I. Or me. Or whatever.

One general observation that'll be obvious to everyone is that different types of writing are best served by considering what furthers your goal.

In creative writing, almost anything goes. You are building an artistic masterpiece; who cares what Mrs. Grundy said in Grade 6 English? If your audience appreciates and/or a responds to what you've done, you have largely succeeded.

If you're writing an explanatory work: perhaps a newspaper article, or technical piece, then clarity and understandability are what it's all about. A whole different ball game, wouldn't you say?

I it was a great Canadian writer who said that, in effect, "All you need to start the greatest story ever written is one true sentence." Artistically speaking, I consider that to be one of the greatest invitations, and challenges, ever penned.

Best wishes,

neo

[Guest neo]

So true.

There's guidelines, recommendations, observations, etc, etc, etc... but rules? They're for braver or smarter souls than I. Or me. Or whatever.

One general observation that'll be obvious to everyone is that different types of writing are best served by considering what furthers your goal.

In creative writing, almost anything goes. You are building an artistic masterpiece; who cares what Mrs. Grundy said in Grade 6 English? If your audience appreciates and/or a responds to what you've done, you have largely succeeded.

If you're writing an explanatory work: perhaps a newspaper article, or technical piece, then clarity and understandability are what it's all about. A whole different ball game, wouldn't you say?

I {think} it was a great Canadian writer who said that, in effect, "All you need to start the greatest story ever written is one true sentence." Artistically speaking, I consider that to be one of the greatest invitations, and challenges, ever penned.

Best wishes,

neo

[Guest neo]

"If the "others" have heard about it, is it worth skiing?"

That is the first Zen koan of skiing.

neo