Seeker Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 This thread has reminded me of a another story involing aircraft and tape. Fairchild, in San Antonio, would build and assemble their Metros at one airport and then fly them to another airport nearby for paint. After painting they would be flown back to the first airport for final quality checks before being turned over to the customer. One aircraft departed the paint shop airport with the fuel vent taped over on one wing. The Metro has a wet wing with no fuel cell or bladder - just the upper and lower skin of the wing. In the few moments that the flight took ( just a few miles between airports ) the suction of the high pressure fuel pump collapsed the wing to the point where it had to be removed from the aircraft and scrapped. I can't imagine what it would feel like to look at the window and see that happen!! seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 This thread has reminded me of a another story involving aircraft and tape. Fairchild, in San Antonio, would build and assemble their Metros at one airport and then fly them to another airport nearby for paint. After painting they would be flown back to the first airport for final quality checks before being turned over to the customer. One aircraft departed the paint shop airport with the fuel vent taped over on one wing. The Metro has a wet wing with no fuel cell or bladder - just the upper and lower skin of the wing. In the few moments that the flight took (just a few miles between airports) the suction of the high pressure fuel pump collapsed the wing to the point where it had to be removed from the aircraft and scrapped. I can't imagine what it would feel like to look at the window and see that happen!! seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Assaf Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 If memory serves me correct, that flight was airborne for a lot more than 5 minutes. Anyone with access to the report have a total flight time for that ill fated flight? and as I AGREED with and stated in the quote of the AC pilot interviewed on the show, it is easy to monday morning quaterback that incident from the safety of your front room, yet that is what we must do to assure that we don't find ourselves in the same circumstances. Respectfully, Rob Assaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Propellerhead Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 http://aviation-safety.net/database/1996/961002-0.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Propellerhead Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 http://aviation-safety.net/database/1996/961002-0.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Propellerhead Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 http://aviation-safety.net/database/1996/961002-0.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 The link just below - Re: CVR by AME shows 5 minutes 9 seconds from the beginning of the takeoff roll to the end of the recording. Although I generally agree with the sentiment that armchair quarterbacking is unfair to the pilots involved in this case I would have expected these guys to have figured it out. seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 As a result of accidents such as these the airlines incorporated pitot/static failures in their recurrent sim etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 The system in the Dash predates this accident and although I can't say for certain I believe that the QRH section and associated training does as well. seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 Hi Mitch; Great thread. Each one of us at one time or another learned about blocked pitots and static ports, either in our private licence days or commercial/IFR. But that was academic learning. The AeroPeru guys had five minutes or so and no expectations of trouble until soon after t/o. Also, perhaps its been mentioned but it was over water at night with no moon. I experienced the same problem out of Vancouver one messy November night (AC156 for AC types) and as we climbed through 9000' in cloud, I noticed (my ASI) we were slowing down well below the climb speed. I looked over to the Captain's ASI and he was on target. The difference grew to about 50 knots and he gave me control as my ASI agreed with the Standby. We waited for the Overspeed warning as the Captain's ASI went past the redline as we climbed higher but nothing happened. We continued to YZ and the C's ASI recovered in the terminal area. The C's ASI was an "altimeter" for the trip, until whatever was blocking the pitot disappeared. EICAS indicated the the Rudder Ratio failure etc, but no direct indication of any pitot heat failure. Currently, on the Airbus (340, but likely the 320's as well), the QRH has all-phase-of-flight attitude and power settings in case of these types of failures. But to be very frank, the discipline and concentration required for such flight would be, in my opinion, significant although certainly doable with practise. One thing is, the attitude changes are so minute and the lift/drag curve so shallow on most heavy transports that sliding back and forth on the curve (oscillating between higher and lower target airspeeds in the pitot/static case) would take some control, especially if there were no horizon references, (night time, in cloud etc). I'll read the report...thanks for bringing it up Mitch. On breaking the glass? I think if the cabin were depressurized and the crew used the standby, it would probably work - the Altimeter that is. The ASI is toast is either ports are u/s. One thing I recall from chatting with the Gimli crew is that their IVSI was u/s and calculating their descent rate to make the field was an added extra workload, (timing per 1000' etc). Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cancommuter Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Although I haven't tried it in the sim you could use GPS sensors info. hidden in the FMS to get a soemwhat basic understanding of your alt and g/s. Of course you'll still need your pitch/bank to cross ref. these numbers you could then make power decisions based on this. Maybe easy to armchair QB this but if the excrement hits the fan you can at least get a real electronic means of establishing G/S and ALT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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