Stickle Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030906/RERIC06//?query=air+canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 "Air Canada wants to emerge from the purgatory of bankruptcy protection as soon as it can, and dealing with a single set of investors for both assets will speed up the process -- and partly to get the highest possible valuation on the airline itself." This airline ain't worth a plug nickel. How do I figure that? Well, Wardair sold for $250 million, Canadian sold for $90 million, and if I average the cost structures with the loss structures and the service costs and the hoojocktapivies, I get a value of about 3 and a half cents for Air Canada... Go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 "It's less than certain whether the employees and management will be able to adapt to the new airline and the marketplace." "If they don't, Air Canada's customers will go elsewhere, and there's a lot of choice out there. To remain loyal, they will want service with a smile, more flexibility with their tickets and fewer restrictions, plus the everyday low prices that travellers have come to expect from the new breed of cheapie airlines -- WestJet, Southwest, JetBlue and other imitators." "For Onex or any of its buyout rivals, writing a cheque for Air Canada will be the easy part. Overhauling the culture to win back and keep customers will be something else entirely. Air Canada may be the sort of high-profile enterprise that Mr. Schwartz covets, but there may be easier ways to make a buck. Is he really sure he wants to take another shot at the airline?" All very good points, I suspect the savings achieved through the concessionary agreements will pale in comparison to the lost revenue due to passengers choosing other carriers due to their dissatisfaction with the service at Air Canada mainline/Jazz. I have to admit that I for one am not to keen on doing anything more than contractually required, this is very sad as I am a front line worker and I am sure it shows to the paying passenger. If Milton thinks that handing out positive space passes free of charge is going to make things better, he really is in the dark. If he thinks morale is bad now, just wait till we're a few years into these concessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest givemeabreak Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Hey Kevin, if you don't like it, why not go somewhere else? No one has a gun to your head! Do our customers a favor and leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipped Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 You must have noticed that the more consessions we give the lower the airfares go. Of course that may be the only reason we still have customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 GMB, I think I'll stick around and take a**holes like you with me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 GMB, I think I'll stick around and with any luck take a**holes like you down with me on this sinking ship! Of course types like you would probably be happy working for lollypops, so why don't you leave and go work for the circus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFA Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Kevin, Only you are responsible for your own happiness. Don't let others screw that up for you. Blame is a spiral of despair that you will take home to your family and spread to you friends. They don't deserve that from you. Keep your chin up old chap. We need you energy for the action ahead! GTFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest George Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I understnad that AC Jazz has an EAP for people like you, angry and unhappy. By the way my comments are serious, the previous poster was quite correct, if you don't like it, why don't you quit, or is it because you don't have the b@lls to back up your words with actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Read my post buddy, what exactly were my words. I merely stated that morale is low, is that too much reality for you? Is that why you and GMB are telling me to quit working here? Keep drinking the Kool-aid boys and girls. Like I said, I am sticking around to watch the ship sink, it'll be much more entertainig from the inside! Go West Jet go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Bergen Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I will respond to your post here as I am sure you are not as extreme in your opinion as your later posts suggest. Do you feel that morale is low due to what was given up in the CCAA negotiations? If so what would be the compromise to have Air Canada continue on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest George Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Morale is a decision you make. Not someone else, there, buddy. While you talk about a company failing being entertaining, calling people @ssholes and the like, I can read exactly what your response was, full of anger and unhappyness. If you want I will get the EAP telephone number for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Patrick, I have to commend you for seeing my post for what it was. You are correct, I am not as extreme as I may have suggested but not unlike a fish, I will nibble when baited. However, I am far from convinced that Air Canada and Jazz will survive. In response to your question, I think we would have to go back in history and pinpoint just what exactly got us here. Obviously, years of mismanagement played a large part in addition to allowing certain unions too much say. A tighter hold on the purse strings years ago would have minimized the effect of 9/11 and SARS. An early acknowledgment to the threat of WestJet in 1996 but no, the mentality at Air Canada was one of invincibility and as long as the same people in upper management are in place, I doubt change will occur. Even the CCAA concessionary process favoured certain unions over others and has left question marks as to what the plan is. Management has provided no glimmer of hope, no light at the end of the tunnel and so we the employees (as the auther of the article so aptly put it) wander aimlessly in the purgatory of the CCAA process. Kevin J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 No thanks George, now please go away you're giving me an itch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I look into my toilet HA! Jazz will survive, it's AC mainline that will go through many changes in the future. Sorry to be so blunt, but in reality look at what the government of Canada may save and what they will save. Jazz will live on, the have virtually no customer complaints, they are on time most of the time, a perfect little airline! Even Martin knows we have to keep Canada together, and trains are a dumb idea! I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Bergen Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 It is interesting in trying to understand what is driving the state we are in and the opportunity for success. The typical person going to work first tries to solve the issue of making enough to live on etc. early in their career, and then progresses up the needs ladder or pyramid to job satisfaction and personal goals and security. I think it is fair to say that in the past many at the original Air Canada and I would even say Candian felt quite stable in their careers. If you look at the average length of service with the company it must rank as quite long compared with other Canadian companies. The situation as it stands now has brought into question even the fundamental needs of employment for everyone. The very core of what our expectations are, now are definitely not certain. My humble opinion suggests that it is this that makes it difficult to focus on, for example, improving process etc. It would be difficult to get excited about improving things wondering if you will even be employed in the upcoming few months. This likely applies to both the management and union groups. Unfortunately, it is this need to continue to improve that is really required at this critical time. I guess the challenge is to find a way to motivate everyone to go for it. That is my armchair analysis for what it is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickle Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 Kevin I can certainly understand your frustrations. However, saying that you are happy to idly stand by and watch the company sink is,IMO, a poor way of approaching things. If you were trying to bait some of the other members here, you were successful. For the first time in my carreer, I don't enjoy going to work anymore and as such am actively looking for work elsewhere. I've maintained that when I quit having fun at work it was time to move on. In the meantime, I put on my game face go to work and try and make the best of it. I have alot of good people that I work with but when you have a series of bosses above you that are disillusioned(sp) with and won't or can't make a decision it becomes frustrating to say the least. The supposed restructuring plan seems to change way too often. This is often on a whim of senior management and if there is some thought process behind it we are certainly not given it. If the employees understood why we are making certain decisions, and we would stick to them for more than a week, then I feel it would go a long way to improving morale. Our senior VP has held a couple of town hall meetings and they have been nothing more than an echo of Robert's messages, we thank you for your hard work and please focus on the customer. All in all we received no information at these sessions and everyone walked away saying "What was the sense of that". As I said, I can appreciate your frustrations but for the sake of all the employees, don't do any less on your job than you used to. If you have to take out your frustrations come here, as it appears that there are many a folk that are willing to banter with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsplat Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Interesting thread. Lots of baggage coming out, no? I'd just like to add something to the discussion of the "town hall" meetings, and the (now tiresome, I fear) chant of "focus on the customer". I have seen this system end to end, and recently. Until every employee understands the linkage between the customer and their future, the chant needs to go on. And, bizarre as it may seem, there are still those who don't get it. Most do, but recall the 80/20 rule. As the staff levels shrink, this will intensify. Each AC employee will handle many more customers, exposing them to that employee's qualities. The sad fact is that good deeds are quickly forgotten by a well-programmed public, but any nasty exchange is headline material. I has seen employees pouring their hearts out to paying passengers over how they were treated during the power outage. How many extra miles do you think the passengers would travel to avoid another meeting like that? Not to feed into the invective above, but truly, folks need to bite the bullet and leave if they can't find a way to be happy at AC. It is obscenely selfish to stay and "watch it fail" for personal entertainment. There are too many families and kids' futures in the balance. So, the bottom line for me has to be, either stay and bail like heck, or get out and lighten the boat. Staying aboard and only bringing the others down is not an option, at least among professionals. -Just my opinion. Vs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Stickle, If you go back and re-read my original post, I think that you'll find that it had nothing to do with baiting. I merely offered my opinion that I thought the author of the article made a good point about the morale. I then went on to add that I too was dealing with my own low morale. The initial responses by GMB and George were your typical (I can’t think of anything constructive to say so I’ll tell him to quit cause he’s got a bad attitude response). To this I responded in kind and I am sorry I allowed them to bring me down to their level. Now I don’t know about you but for me humour goes along way in keeping me mentally balanced so in reference to the comment about “entertaining watching the ship go down” I truly do get a laugh from watching the buffoons in senior management continue repeating the mistakes of the past, only in a different form. Got to go now, Flame away GMB and George! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest givemeabreak Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Now Kevin, I WILL agree with you there! But just because upper management (Milton, et al) are a bunch of idiots, it doesn't mean we have to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I think one of the hardest things we employees are dealing with is the status quo nonsense while we're waiting for leadership. Now I understand -- have been told -- that leadership will begin to make positive change after we emerge from the other side of this CCAA nebula... The trouble is, the changes we've heard hints of, and seen language for and the beginnings of, are not all so wonderful, and in some cases they seem out right foolish. In the mean time we watch the bleeding continue and shake our heads. It makes it hard for some of us to believe there actually will be stars on the other side of this vast nebula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 There will be stars, or you will be seeing stars, Mitch Seriously, the key event for change is the conversion of debt to equity and the infusion of new equity. This brings about a new board, possibly a changed or totally revamped management team, clear direction of what the reorganized airline can or cannot afford, and therefore can or cannot undertake in the way of fleet, routes, etc. It also paves the way to looking at each asset independently of the whole again. For example, if it makes sense to sell a stake in Jazz or ACTS or Aeroplan, you have to wait until the new shareholders are in place because they are basing their purchase on a certain valuation for the parts that comprise AC now. If Texas Pacific is a successful bidder, I think that's good for everyone, including employees. They have a very good track record at Continental. They brought in Bethune and groomed Brenneman. Now Brenneman, who is out of the industry currently, is being mentionned for a big job at AC. I think that would be good. I don't think employees at large international airlines are ever going to revere bosses the way Herb Kelleher was revered at Southwest, but I think there can be a healthy balance between respect for the management team and skepticism about some of their plans. So I that balance can be restored. Also, let's face it. If AC becomes profitable, no matter who is in, there will be a bit more confidence. Nothing breeds confidence like success and AC has gone a long time between successful years. So any evidence of durable success will be well-received. I don't know whether that would turn around the likes of Kevin J. I have a hunch he wasn't going above and beyond for customers even before CCAA. He doesn't strike me like the type who would ever have been 'rah-rah red team' (of teal team, whatever, you get it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Actually dagger, Kevin is one of the employees ZX had, his customer service was/is second to none, I think you'll find that the ones who truely cared about/loved their jobs, are the ones who's morale is the lowest. Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Actually dagger, Kevin is one of the best employees ZX had, his customer service was/is second to none, I think you'll find that the ones who truely cared about/loved their jobs, are the ones who's morale is the lowest. Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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