For Mitch

[Guest AME]

Mitch

Don't let them get you down (easy to say, hard to do )

I gave up caring a long time ago, while I'm being paid I give 100% and zero when I'm not.

Remember we " Work to live, and not live to work"

Brett

p.s. Here's something to think about, if they insist on adhereing to the rules, then all the rules apply .... have you read TOCM lately

[Southshore]

Hope you don't mind but I don't seem to be able to post a new message so I'm 'hijacking' this post for a clip from todays Gazette. Interesting.

"Air Canada looks at Boeing's 717

Plans to ditch some of its largest Jets. Carrier intends to use more regional Jets, giving it extra flexibility in uncertain times

NICOLAS VAN PRAET

The Gazette

Thursday, July 10, 2003

CREDIT: BOEING

Air Canada executives will examine Boeing's 717-300 aircraft.

Tomorrow at Dorval airport, Air Canada managers will hop on board a spanking new Boeing 717 in the first of what could be several show-and-tell sessions with plane makers to see which aircraft fit in best with the carrier's plans for a revamped fleet.

Air Canada, now under bankruptcy protection, is radically changing what kind of planes it will fly. It plans to ditch some of its largest jets, such as the Boeing 747, and make more use of smaller planes, or so-called regional jets. Such planes typically carry between 50 and 110 passengers.

The idea is to become more elastic by being able to fly as many smaller planes as needed into cities of different sizes instead of being stuck flying bigger planes in an uncertain revenue environment.

Ernst & Young, Air Canada's court-appointed monitor, has signalled the airline intends to raise financing to buy up to 105 regional jets over the next several years at an estimated cost of $4 billion. Air Canada said last week it obtained a commitment for financing from General Electric Co.'s aircraft-leasing unit for $1.3 billion, allowing the airline to purchase 43 of those 105 smaller planes.

"The traditional notion that big revenues come with big aircraft is another industry myth which has to be put to rest," Air Canada chief executive Robert Milton said in a recent speech.

"Versatility and flexibility make money."

Air Canada is looking at regional jets built by Boeing, Airbus, Brazil's Embraer SA and Bombardier in the 100-seat category, said airline official Isabelle Arthur. It will also buy smaller planes.

The Montreal carrier is buying jets in the 100-seat range in a joint purchase with its Star Alliance partners Lufthansa, SAS and Austrian Airlines. The Star Alliance is a global commercial partnership of airlines.

After Boeing, the others might well trot out their own products at Air Canada's Dorval base for auditioning.

Bombardier is expected to hold an edge over its rivals because it is a Canadian company and Air Canada already operates 26 of its 50-passenger jets, meaning the airline could generate savings from using just one aircraft type. Air Canada would also get plane commonality with the Airbus A318, as it already flies bigger versions of that jet.

Pilots from the airline's regional carrier Jazz, who will likely do much of the flying of the new planes, will back Bombardier as a provider, pilots' union leader Nick Dicintio said yesterday.

Air Canada has not yet placed any orders or outlined specific delivery times.

[Super 80]

I am generally a big DC-9 fan, but I really can't see the point of the 717 (aka MD-95DC-9-95)

It is the size of a large regional jet, but it doesn't offer the economics of a regional jet. And unless an airline were already opperating a modern member of the DC-9 family like the MD-80 there is really no advantage offered by the 717.

I can't see why anyone would chose the 717 over the Embraer 190. The only reason I could see Air Canada buying the 717 is because it would be less controversial than buying the Embraer 190.

[dragon]

ss

Sometimes a simple reboot will reset all your settings, allowing you to post a new message or a response as well. Also, if you have anything from the AEF minimized and in your taskbar, I find that it will sometimes inhibit the 'post new message' window from displaying.

Hope that is of use to you.

[Southshore]

I shut down my computer to vauum the bunnies out of it and poof the 'new post' box opens right up. Don't what I did, right or wrong but it's woikin' agin.

cheers

[dagger]

From what I gather, it's just a tire kicking session. Happens all the time. The manufacturer carts a plane around the world to get a little publicity and generate a little talk within the carrier.

But can somebody tell me about the 717-300. This is a new one on me. I thought there is only the 717-200. Boeing website is silent on a 717-300, so I assume the reporter just got it wrong.

As for the EMB, I wouldn't discount it at all. Milton has been critical of Ottawa's export help for Bombardier's non-Canadian customers. I am sure Air Canada won't pay more for a CRJ than a foreign carrier, which is why the Star Alliance buying consortium might make sense. But then the planes would have to be leased to AC.

[Super 80]

The 717-300 is a Boeing vapor plane, like the 7e7, Sonic Cruiser or 747-700.

It's just talk, Boeing will never build it.

The 717-300 would be basically a modern DC-9-30, but given how inexpensive MD-80's are these days alot of airlines the world over are happy to buy low millage MD-80's from American Airlines and other large carriers streamlining their fleets to replace their aging DC-9's.

[Guest M. McRae]

Of course the MD80s are now facing noise restrictions and will need to be hushkitted at some point.

MD-80 Noise Compliance Just Got Easier

Thu, 10 Jul '03

Multiple Benefits From 'Chapter 4' Nozzles for DC-9 Family

Goodrich Corporation, in conjunction with JET Engineering LLC, is now able to offer an innovative engine exhaust nozzle that will enable MD-80 aircraft to comply with new noise legislation.

In addition to substantial noise reduction benefits, the new nozzle configuration which was certified by the FAA last month, also results in potential fuel savings and lower operating costs for MD-80 aircraft owners and operators.

Goodrich's Aerostructures division in Chula Vista (CA) will supply the exhaust nozzles [as shown on the 1981-model MD-81 in the photo] to interested MD-80 operators. In addition, the company's worldwide service centers will modify the MD-80 thrust reverser assemblies to accept the nozzle and provide on-going support and technical services to airlines that elect to modify their fleets.

According to Bob Gustafson, Vice President/General Manager Aftermarket Services for Goodrich Aerostructures division, "Compliance with airport noise regulations and curfews is a growing concern for both U.S. and European MD-80 operators. As a result of these restrictions, European MD-80 operators are paying increased landing fees and U.S. operators are faced with restricted operations at certain airports. This new nozzle design offers a cost- effective method for complying with the new noise regulations while improving the aircraft's useful life and residual asset values."

FMI: www.goodrich.com

http://www.aero-news.net/news/commair.cfm

Daily Survey

[Mitch Cronin]

Thanks Brett. That's on a lot of people's minds these days. I have trouble with the idea of an adversarial relationship with my employer. I've always been something of a "company man", but this management philosophy seems bound to beat that out of me. And I don't understand what they hope to gain by that.

Cheers,

Mitch

[Super 80]

True, it's an issue but when you can buy an airplane that is in alot of cases less than 10 years old for little more than what it is worth for scrap, it isn't difficult to stomach spending a little money to bring them up to spec.

Anyone know what JetsGo is paying on their MD-80 leases?

[Guest AllThatJazz]

Unlimited mileage on evenings and weekends

[Guest lupin]

dagger,

I had a talk with the RJ fleet specialist in yul a few weeks ago.The RJ is the prefered airplane,and because the whole deal would be going through star alliance the discount would probably apply to air canada as well.

It also puts a little bit of pressure on our governing liberals....can you imagine what would happen if we bought brezilian airplanes because of the feds policy?!?? It would cause a scandal canada wide.

Im just curious to see what the other partners of star alliance want?Would the rj fill their needs and requirements?Or is an airplane such as the embraee better suited for their requirements (with up to 100 seats)

Lupin

[Guest Max Continuous]

The 100 seat 717 is the latest development of the popular DC-9/MD-80/MD-90 family and the only Douglas airliner which Boeing (which merged with McDonnell Douglas in 1997) plans to retain in its product line-up. It is designed for high cycle, short range regional airline operations.

McDonnell Douglas first announced the MD-95 at the Paris Airshow in June 1991. At the time MDC anticipated a formal program launch by late 1991 and a first flight in July 1994. As it happened program launch was not until October 1995 when US airline ValuJet (now AirTran Airlines) ordered 50 and optioned 50.

In January 1998 Boeing (following the August 1997 Boeing/McDonnell Douglas merger) relaunched the aircraft as the 717-200 (the second use of the Boeing designation "717", as this was previously allocated to the military C-135/KC-135 family). First flight took place on September 2 1998, followed by a second development 717 on October 26. Certification was awarded on September 1 1999 while the first delivery, to AirTran, was on September 23 that year.

Initially MDC studied powering the MD-95 with Pratt & Whitney JT8D-218s or Rolls-Royce Tays. In February 1994 however MDC announced it had chosen the new BMW Rolls-Royce (now just Rolls-Royce) BR715 over the JT8D-200 and an engine from the proposed "Project Blue" teaming of General Electric, Snecma, MTU and P&W.

Other 717-200 features include a fuselage 1.45m (4ft 9in) longer than the DC-9-30's, a wing based on the DC-9-34's, an advanced six LCD screen Honeywell EFIS flightdeck, and a cabin interior similar to that developed for the MD-90. It is offered in standard 717-200BGW (Basic Gross Weight) and extended range 717-200HGW (High Gross Weight) forms. In addition, 80 seat shortened 717-100 (formerly MD-95-20) and 120 seat stretched 717-300 (formerly MD-95-50) models have been studied, as has a business jet variant.

Companies participating in 717 production include Alenia (fuselage), Korean Air (nose), AIDC of Taiwan (empennage), ShinMaywa of Japan (engine pylons and horizontal stabilizers), Israel Aircraft Industries (undercarriage), and Fischer of Austria (interior). Final assembly is at Boeing's Long Beach plant, in the same building that the DC-9 and MD-80 were built in.

Initial orders and operators are:

AeBal, Airtran, Bangkok Air, Bavaria International Leasing, Hawaiian Airlines, Impulse Airlines, Midwest Express Airlines, Olympic Aviation, Pembroke Leasing, Qantas Link, Siam Reap Air, Trans World Airlines, and Turkmenistan Airlines.

Airliners.net