Guest b52er Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Could someone explain to me why the WHO should lift its ban on travel to/from CYYZ? After reading that the area has approx 136 suspect cases, more recent deaths, and with a population in all of Canada of roughly 25 million, our per capita percentage of SAR's suspected cases is far worse than China, or any other asian country per capita. Not to mention the per capita cases in Toronto alone. Why lift the Toronto ban if your not lifting the others? I think the uproar coming from our politicians both civic and federal as well as our medical communities, is a result of a wake up call in that they are being told by the WHO body that Canada is not as immune as they consider themselves to be. Nothing was being said by our population when travel advisories were issued to Asian destinations, but when it hits home.......holy cow! Well, we had better live with it and get on with containing the outbreak, instead of our medical communities, politicians and the like denying that it is not a serious threat in the centre of universe......Toronto!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flyersclub Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 i heard there have not been any new cases in YYZ for 20 days ... and since it has a 10 day incubation, they feel there are no more new cases ... maybe some in YYZ has an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 So the Toronto population wasn't upset when a travel ban was issued for places in Asia but they are upset when one is issued for Toronto. Hmmm. That seems odd to you??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Gotta disagree with you on this one b52er. This is the classic case of media hyping an issue, the common (if you can call it that) Flu is 2 to 4 times more likely to kill you than SARS, SARS is killing the elderly and previously sick. I heard one early report that stated that 4 or 5 of the early victims also were in the advanced stages of AIDS, gimme a break SARS seems to be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back, it does not seem to strike the healthy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Simple it is NIMBY at work. I still puzzle over this, if the SARs problem in YYZ is so bad that the WHO has to issue a travel alert, what is being done to prevent the spread from YYZ to other points in Canada? Truely a non problem or gov. inaction?? (Y) (N) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest b52er Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 No, not odd, just a little hypocritical. In other words, its okay when it happens in someone elses world, but when it is in your own?? I just can't stand that train of thought and unfortunately, it is prevanlent throughout society. Sometimes, I even catch myself with that same mentality, the difference is when I do, I admit it try to fix it. Whether I can fix it or not is a different story! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest b52er Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Fair enough. Then what differentiates Toronto from the asian countries on the list. In other words, why is Asia seen as an area to avoid, but not Toronto. That's all I'm asking. Could it be that our medical communities throughout Canada are more concerned about image than producing results to control any and all diseases that afflict us. Could the cracks in our system be begining to show, and they do not know how to deal with this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 I would suggest that the ability to identify the transmission string in every actual or suspect case and the ability to show that the string has been contained in each case has something to do with the position that the ban should be lifted. Recent deaths do not add to any numbers as these people were already identified as having the disease, but they do allow the media to add to the hype they are trying to keep going, for their own reasons. The numbers that you quoted above are totals for the entire period, not the current actual figures, as I understand it. The other countries have not proven that they have contained the spread of the disease. I don't know why you would think that Canada might object to China or Vietnam being identified any more than they should ask that any country be included. It would be up to that country to appeal any decision by the WHO, just as Canada has done. If it is as contagious and as deadly as has been inferred in the news, there's nothing we can do to contain it in the long term anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 "Then what differentiates Toronto from the asian countries on the list" http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/sars/travel_advice.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Driven Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 I gotta disagree with you on this one Mav... Read Neo's excellent post below in the "AC deeking around YYZ" thread. It's an apples to oranges comparison I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vermillion Bay Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Every day the Ministry of Health has a daily update. These updates can be watched on video by accessing www.cp24.com. On the right side of this page you will see a link called "In the Raw". There are videos from the past few days. I suggest you go through each one of those videos to understand how the WHO made a big mistake in the travel ban. Particular interest should be made to April 24/03 video with Premier Eves. Also, the CDC in ATL is not in agreement with the WHO. The newspaper, like everything else, only reports a fraction of the information and you cannot base a decision based on the numbers that are being published alone. Based on your post, the centre of the universe seems to be in front of your computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 The response from Dagger to Neo's post is more in line with my thinking, the part that gets me is the high average age of the victims, these people have a host of problems already. Could it get worse? probably but I'll take my chances with SARS before a lot of others out there, if given a choice (not that any of have one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomerPete Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics right? Comparing Canada or China statistically as whole countries is an absolutely meaningless effort and I suspect, a very disingenuous one as well. Frankly, I think you've just decided to jump on the SARS bandwaggon to engage in a little more Toronto and, by extension, AC bashing. But, let's look at the "per capita" facts that you're hanging your hat on before passing judgement. in fact, the WHO has not "banned" travel to anywhere, but they have issued travel advisories for certain places, specifically the Hong Kong SAR, the Chinese regions of Guangdong, Beijing and Shanxi, and of course, Toronto. So, to compare apples to apples you would only compare the infection rates of those regions. Unfortunately, I don't have a regional breakdown, so we'll have to assume that all the cases in each country are in the named regions. Also for comparison it's worth considering Singapore, which has more reported cases than Toronto, and yet has not had a travel advisory issued against it. The numbers look like this: China (G+B+S) pop. 136,290,000, infected/dead 2753/122, per capita .002%/.00009% Toronto pop. 4,682,897, infected/dead 142/18, per capita .003%/.00038% Singapore pop. 4,578,938, infected/dead 198/21, per capita .004%/.00046% Hong Kong SAR pop. 7,303,334, infected/dead 1527/121, per capita .021%/.00166% Looking at the above you can see that the relative population of the Chinese regions (especially Guangdong at 86 million alone) makes any per capita comparison meaningless when applied to China. If a similar mortality rate among the total population existed there as in Toronto, there would have to be 4,089 already reported dead. If the mortality rate there was the same as HK's (and it probably is in the presently affected portion of Guangdong) the dead would total 28,621. Another factor to consider is the validity of the Chinese data, given the lack of honesty they have had so far in reporting SARS cases. Likewise, with the low number of deaths in Toronto and Singapore the ratios there change significantly with a single death, and thus are only marginally relevant. The more telling comparisons are between Toronto and Hong Kong (HK has 7x the rate of infection and 4.5x the rate of death) which are both given equal treatment in the travel advisory, and also between Toronto and Singapore (Toronto has 20-25% lower rates of infection and death) which has not had a travel advisory issued against it. Looking at the comparisons between Toronto, Hong Kong and Singapore it's pretty easy to see why folks in Toronto have a complaint, if the disease is only considered on the basis of its per capita infection rate. Obviously the WHO considers a good many other factors, and I'm in no position to judge whether they're right or wrong, but your theory of why they are right is easy enough to judge, and it's basically a load of uninformed garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flygirl Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 *taken from another site* Only 251 people have died from SARS, and that's out of 4288 cases. That means only about 7 or 8 percent of people who get it die from it. Here's a few interesting facts. 36,000 people die from the flu every year in the U.S. alone. AIDS has killed more than 20 million, with 4 million expected to die in the next decade. The Spanish Flu in 1919 killed 30 million including 675,000 Americans. So yes, SARS is coming, but you've probably got a better chance dying at a rock concert than from SARS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Let's put it into a much simpler perspective... More people have died in the Greater Toronto Area, in the same time as the SARS outbreak, from traffic accidents. Yet you don't see the traffic on the 401 lessening like the travel through the airport! So which poses a greater threat to your health??? Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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