Guest speed brake Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Zip, Jazz merger pushed Pilots union likes proposal to Air Canada to join discount airline with regional flier NICOLAS VAN PRAET The Gazette Wednesday, April 16, 2003 ADVERTISEMENT The time is right to consider joining Air Canada's discount subsidiary Zip Air with its regional airline Jazz, a top union leader says. A proposal for such a merger is said to have already been floated as Air Canada works out a business plan to emerge from bankruptcy protection. "Just roll Zip into Jazz or Jazz into Zip and let's call it a new name," said Nick Dicintio, head of the labour unit representing pilots at Jazz. "Call it Zap and let's become the low-cost carrier which is going to be able to go head to head with all the competition in North America." Zip is Air Canada's western-based discount airline. It was set up with the specific purpose of replacing Air Canada's traditional product on routes where it is losing money. Zip has lower pay scales and its passengers pay for onboard extras like snacks. Jazz, the regional airline, lost $90 million last year. Its pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, are now pushing a plan they claim will improve work productivity by up to 60 per cent. The union wouldn't divulge the details of the proposal, but it hinges on boosting the use of regional jets at the airline. An agreement with the Air Canada Pilots Association limits the number of regional jets Jazz can operate. A different ACPA agreement also pegs the maximum number of jets at Zip to 20. Dicintio said Jazz will be the lowest-cost airline in North America under the union's new plan. An airline born from the two old carriers would be expected to fly two types of regional jets: Dash-8 turboprops and the smallest Airbus and Boeing aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Biggells Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Since ACPA doesn't consider Jazz pilots as being AC pilots, the guys and girls from Zip would have to join the Jazz list. I'm sure that they would be happy with BOTL or a formula based seniority list designed to protect the many years of seniority at Jazz. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozerboy Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I am sure that some would be really happy when they get their old connector date back. Enjoy. Your post is one of the stupidest I have read on this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 An airline born from the two old carriers would be expected to fly two types of regional jets: Dash-8 turboprops and the smallest Airbus and Boeing aircraft. Shows you the grasp this reporter has; Dash-8 aren't jets and Bombardier RJ's aren't even mentioned. I wonder what else is wrong with this report?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I could very likely place you within 20 Jazz guys Mr. Biggells, you are just way too predictable. Your small but influential group [within your own relatively small pond] did nothing to further the majority of your members interests back in 1995 – 96, not to mention AC, you do nothing to further that interest today either.. Your interpretation of the upcoming events are unsubstantiated conjecture, along with wishful thinking. While I still credit Longtimer V with the stupidest post on this board all time, in my opinion, yours is a close second. FYI, I have always, and still do, support an integrated list. ACPA will, as would CALPA C, resist that until a mutually acceptable solution could be reached.. In my view, attitudes like yours delay the possibility. dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Dragon What do you mean by "Your small but influential group [within your own relatively small pond] did nothing to further the majority of your members interests back in 1995 – 96,"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Q Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Then they woke up....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Q Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Then they woke up....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Q Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Then they woke up........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QTIP Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 dragon, you go out on a limb with this post and we'll see who's pond has how many fish in it at the end of the CCAA process.as a matter of fact, you should be wearing "waterwings"like the rest of us at this time.the big picture is right in front of you.now "push the light and take the banana" silly bugger!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 DEFCON, I only know the former AO intimately so with that preface and with not especially wishing to contribute to a long thread. ‘Small but influential’ Within AO, the small group, [mostly made up of original Austin] in relation to total numbers there in ’95 – ‘96, were very influential, both towards those that stayed, as well as those that decided to leave, me included. The attitudes displayed by those few but influential members, played a significant role in my decision to move on to an opportunity that I thought was very fair, especially the final offers proposed. “Relatively small pond’ The small pond [AO] within the bigger pond, [ABC, Alliance and Nova] and those wholly owned subsidiaries combined, compared against the mainline group, hence, "Your small but influential group [within your own relatively small pond]”. As I say, I still support an integrated list between Jazz and Mainline, I think that though many disagree, I also believe that a time is not far off where more will look back in retrospect and agree, at least in principle. Respectfully, dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 QTIP, First off, I have to ask. I only recall one other poster on this forum that uses small cap font with no space after pronunciation marks, LTV. Though you are a little more engaging than LTV, your syntax is unmistakably familiar?.. Anyway, what can I say? Limb?, re-read the post, what limb? Do you know the outcome of the CCAA process? I certainly do not, I do not believe Mr. B does either. I will crawl out that limb however and suggest that you do not either, hence my statement, “unsubstantiated conjecture and wishful thinking’. Re-read the post once again, along with my response to DEFCON, and you will clearly see that I am not speaking about ponds either tomorrow, next week or next year. I was specifically speaking of ponds back in 1995 and 1996. ‘Water wings’ ? What is the big picture that you apparently see so clearly and what’s the banana meant to symbolize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alldatjazz Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Chico; You have mis-read the article. The meaning is: a. two types of regional jets [50 & 70 seats], and b. small Airbus or Boeing products, and c. Dash 8 turboprops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest YULer Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest YULer Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Since I am familiar with this reporter, I can tell you that this appears to be an editing mistake. Shouldn't have been a colon there. The reporter knows the difference between a Dash-8 and an RJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QTIP Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 dragon, After reading a few more of your posts I see where you are coming from and please accept my apology. So what kind of rules will it be this time around? Why not just turn the clock back and give everyone DOH that's still in the game. The same rules for everyone no matter where you came from or when you arrived. DOH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Knows the difference Really?? Well bully for him! I guess you are right since reporters don't have to be too careful when they sling around "the facts". A quick scan of his column took me a half second to spot the glaring mistake. He still can't explain why he failed to mention bombardier jets in the same sentence WHICH IS WHAT THIS ABOUT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 ...all that because of a silly punctuation mark - ok I surrender! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Chico, The article seems to be basically factually correct to me, as well, there is no mistake that Nick D speaks for ALPA C, he is a union leader of Jazz and not AC, the article states very clearly. One who understands media, be it text, video or voice, understands that one writes for the lowest common denominator in our country, news is not directed to the most intelligent or the least intelligent, rather it is meant to reach the 80% in between. As for what type of airplane. Next time you are in the mall, ask 10 non airline people what the capital of the USA is, never mind the difference between an RJ, DHC8 and a B717, then count the blank stares. Does it matter? I don’t know but I think you are picking flysh*t out of ground pepper. To ” An airline born from the two old carriers would be expected to fly two types of regional jets: Dash-8 turboprops and the smallest Airbus and Boeing aircraft. BTW, is a STAR consortium, including AC, not currently involved in talks with four separate aircraft manufacturers, including Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier and Embrarer to purchase 200 ‘regional jet’ aircraft for deployment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 No worries QTIP, What kind of rules? I do not know specifics, unfortunately I believe that if in fact the current issue goes the way many speculate, each union will adopt the usual self serving stance as opposed to a what is best for the most position. Clearly, again my opinion, policy and practice of past opportunity, has not been the driving motivation. Turn the clock back? That’s A LOT of water under the bridge. There will be a lot of resistance, at least until circumstances help more members to realize that the current system is flawed. It is amazing how a little genuine adversity will help to broaden one’s perspective. DOH? Was never in the game, and should not be entertained IMO if for no other reason than the insurmountable resistance associated. Other compromises could, and perhaps should, be explored. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Chico, The article seems to be basically factually correct to me, as well, there is no mistake that Nick D is speaking on behalf of ALPA C, he is a union leader of Jazz and not AC, the article states very clearly. One who understands media, be it text, video or voice, understands that one writes for the lowest common denominator in our country, news is not directed to the most intelligent or the least intelligent, rather it is meant to reach the 80% in between. As for what type of airplane. Next time you are in the mall, ask 10 non airline people what the capital of the USA is, never mind the difference between an RJ, DHC8 and a B717, then count the blank stares. Does it matter? I don’t know but I think you are picking flysh*t out of ground pepper. To ” An airline born from the two old carriers would be expected to fly two types of regional jets: Dash-8 turboprops and the smallest Airbus and Boeing aircraft. Is a STAR consortium, including AC, not currently involved in talks with four separate aircraft manufacturers, including Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier and Embrarer to purchase 200 ‘regional jet’ aircraft for deployment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 A wonderful idea but what about Tango? I say join all three together with the regional/low cost salary structure and then you will be able to compete with the other low cost carriers. AC could transfer all RJ's, A319's and B737's to this new airline and get out of the regional business. Use the A320's and larger aircraft on Air Canada mainline for overseas and to connect the larger cities from east to west, YYZ/YVR etc. AC mainline should then enhance their in-flight service and change their motto to “please our customers first”. Change the attitude, increase meal service and ensure 100% customer satisfaction and then increase yield and profits will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 roger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiselcharter Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 So in simple terms. The highest paid dash drivers, want to become the lowest paid jet jocks. Why don't we all start 'street walkin'. I have always said, pilots and their unions are their own worst enemies. Milton and Calin are going to take what they want, and at this rate we'll be comparing salaries to Jetsgo. Get a grip guy's, we are in a specialized business, and our salaries were not so far out of whack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 What exactly are you suggesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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