Tired Crew Declares Pan

[Trader]

HO HO--this one will get glossed over I bet!!!

http://avherald.com/h?article=451572e0&opt=0

Incident: Air Berlin A332 at Munich on May 5th 2012, tired crew declared PAN

By Simon Hradecky, created Monday, Jun 18th 2012 13:40Z, last updated Tuesday, Jun 19th 2012 13:29ZAn Air Berlin Airbus A330-200, registration D-ALPA performing flight AB-9721 from Palma Mallorca,SP (Spain) to Munich (Germany), was on approach to Munich about 15 minutes prior to landing, when the crew declared PAN PAN reporting they were fatigued and needed to perform an automatic landing. The airport needed to temporarily invoke procedures to protect the ILS category III zones to permit an automatic landing. The aircraft continued for a safe landing on runway 26L about 15 minutes later at 10:27L (08:27Z).

The German Luftfahrtbundesamt (LBA) confirmed the incident and reported they are investigating the occurrence.

On Jun 19th 2012 the German BFU stated the occurrence has been reported to the BFU and the BFU have opened an investigation, first information is to be released in the monthly bulletin published in July 2012.

Metars:

EDDM 050950Z 27012KT 9999 SCT026 SCT050 BKN120 15/09 Q1006 NOSIG

EDDM 050920Z 27014KT 9999 FEW025 SCT060 BKN120 15/09 Q1006 NOSIG

EDDM 050850Z 27012KT 9999 FEW025 SCT060 BKN090 15/10 Q1006 NOSIG

EDDM 050820Z 27013KT CAVOK 15/09 Q1006 NOSIG

EDDM 050750Z 26010KT CAVOK 14/09 Q1005 NOSIG

EDDM 050720Z 26010KT CAVOK 14/09 Q1005 NOSIG

EDDM 050650Z 26010KT CAVOK 13/09 Q1005 NOSIG

EDDM 050620Z 27009KT CAVOK 13/09 Q1005 NOSIG

[J.O.]

Apparently the autoland is SOP at this company when the crew is feeling fatigued. The ILS protection is a good idea if you're going to go for it and a PAN is the only way to achieve that on a CAVOK day.

Now, what do you do when your destination only has a non-precision approach?

[thinair]

Ridiculous I say. Do these people want a gentle rub on the shoulders to wake them from controlled rest also?

A little embarassing to the profession, although in fairness, it would be interesting to see their previous flight deck duty times.

th

[J.O.]

While Air Berlin's policy may be unique, I think it's a result of some interesting "outside of the box" thinking. If we wanted to, we could poke holes in some local SOPs in every airline.

[thinair]

My comments were not intended to pick holes in another companys sop, but more to speak out against the mentality that would allow the use of an urgency call to ATC for priority handling because the crew is fatigued. They should never have departed in the first place if they were that fatigued. What would have happened if this crew had faced a real emergency? Stall the airplane into the ground!

Are European crews that inexperienced that they are afraid to fly without an autopilot too.

We see far too many instances of poor judgement/airmanship and basic flying skills here in North America as well. I don't need to list them because they are well known.

If we think that these types of incidents can be justified its no wonder why we are ridiculed about our profession by others in the industry.

Maybe I'm alone on this one, but people here talk about race to the bottom. If I was an exec. and knew nothing about aviating, I probally would ask " are these people unique and why should I pay them decently"

[Seeker]

My comments were not intended to pick holes in another companys sop, but more to speak out against the mentality that would allow the use of an urgency call to ATC for priority handling because the crew is fatigued. They should never have departed in the first place if they were that fatigued. What would have happened if this crew had faced a real emergency? Stall the airplane into the ground!

Are European crews that inexperienced that they are afraid to fly without an autopilot too.

We see far too many instances of poor judgement/airmanship and basic flying skills here in North America as well. I don't need to list them because they are well known.

If we think that these types of incidents can be justified its no wonder why we are ridiculed about our profession by others in the industry.

Maybe I'm alone on this one, but people here talk about race to the bottom. If I was an exec. and knew nothing about aviating, I probally would ask " are these people unique and why should I pay them decently"

I think you're missing an important aspect of this. As our illustrious business leaders continuously use the courts, the governments and the whatever other underhanded method they can come up with to re-write or outright cancel contracts, pensions etc, there are few options available to declare a "panpan" and land it. I don't know much about this specific occurance but it's not too much of a stretch to see the same thing happening at the new AC LCC when the current flight and duty contract rules get thrown out the window as being "too expensive" The crews have no contract provision to manage their duty times? Well, I'll fly til I'm tired then I'll land it wherever I please. Same thing goes for min fuel flight planning - sure, min fuel is fine but if I don't like it we'll be landing in SSM.

[thinair]

I think you're missing an important aspect of this. As our illustrious business leaders continuously use the courts, the governments and the whatever other underhanded method they can come up with to re-write or outright cancel contracts, pensions etc, there are few options available to declare a "panpan" and land it. I don't know much about this specific occurance but it's not too much of a stretch to see the same thing happening at the new AC LCC when the current flight and duty contract rules get thrown out the window as being "too expensive" The crews have no contract provision to manage their duty times? Well, I'll fly til I'm tired then I'll land it wherever I please. Same thing goes for min fuel flight planning - sure, min fuel is fine but if I don't like it we'll be landing in SSM.

If thats the case here and you contend that the crew was 'making a point', then we are talking about two entirely different things.

[Seeker]

Welcome to the "real" world where crew manage their duty & rest in accordance with the CARs instead of a "contract provision". I'm quite sure that any pilot who dares to fly for the AC LCC will be no less professional in carrying out their responsibilities than any at the mainline. Believe it or not, ACPA pilots do not have a monopoly on high standards, experience, and/or professional integrity.

Whoa Rich, where's that coming from? I made no comment about anyone's experience or professional integrity.

In Canada I do not believe the regs provide an acceptable level of safety for flight and duty times although perhaps in other countries the regs do provide an acceptable level. If your comment, "welcome to the real world" is meant to imply that Air Canada pilots have been coddled or have somehow enjoyed working conditions (with regards to flight and duty times) that have been easier or more lenient than the rest of the world's pilots I think you are incorrect. In any case, replacing hard won legacy contracts with bare minimum LCC contracts is hardly progress for any of us. Replacing a benefit or pay rate at a legacy carrier is simply an opportunity for the management at the neighbouring LCC to demand the lowering of the same from their pilots. I do believe that Westjet pilots are, or were, paid according to a percentage of industry average so if Air Canada pilots are paid less I think it's pretty clear where the Westjet pilot's wages will go on their next renewal.

[Seeker]

If thats the case here and you contend that the crew was 'making a point', then we are talking about two entirely different things.

No that's not what I was saying at all (jeezz, I'm not doing very well in this thread!). I was saying that perhaps declaring panpan was the last option available to the crew with everything else having been peeled away by their management.