Mitch Cronin Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Quoted from elsewhere on these pages (in a somewhat more serious thread) is this tale about monkeys learning not to do things... it's obviously meant to illustrate the sheep-like nature of lower brain function in primates, or the foolish and/or moronic behavior of mindlessly doing things as they've always been done... When I first read this it impressed me as being an excellent example of just that, but what I didn't then realize was that I was so immersed in the effects of being like one of those first introduced monkeys (after the water was turned off), that I couldn't look at it for what it was... It's BULL MANURE!: Learning the Status Quo Start with a cage containing five monkeys. -In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. -As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the monkeys with cold water. -After a while, another monkey will make an attempt with the same response - all of the monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Keep this up for several days. -Turn off the cold water. -If, later, another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it even though no water sprays them. Now so far, I don't see anything there to dispute. I think it's highly likely they'll behave exactly as described, to this point. ..... -Now, remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. -The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. Here, already I think the tale is heading from probable behavior into the improbable... I suspect it would be more likely that one or more of the monkeys would stand back and duck what he thought was about to come, rather than join in the attack. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. -Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. That's where I begin to seriously doubt the truth to this.... I reckon that's going to depend on the monkey's personality... I'd wager many monkeys would simply stand back and observe... for one thing, it's going to depend on their relative sizes and how well the monkeys have socialized and whether or not they've been caged, experimental, torture subjects their whole lives.... -Replace the third original monkey with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four monkeys that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. Extended fantasy... depends on total accuracy of the first stages... like trying to predict the weather a month away -After replacing the fourth and fifth original monkeys, all the monkeys which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs. Having studied one species of primate most of my life, I feel I'm qualified to say that's got to be total B.S.! At some point, one of those monkeys is going to run past the stairs and watch for a reaction.... since he didn't stop, he'll get none... the other monkeys won't want to beat him up for that.... next time he'll run past and hit the stairs with his hand... no big deal, no consequence... another monkey will follow suit some time later... eventually they might make it a game... pretty soon the game will lead to hanging out by the stairs... then climbing the stairs is an easy next step... soon, that banana is gone! Why not? "Because that's the way it's always been done around here." Puh! ....Ptui! ...Nonsense. Maybe monkey's don't have their own version of Burt Rutan, but there's bound to be a few free thinkers in the lot! ....so sez Mitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Hey Mitch,,, It's a little early, isn't it Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted August 21, 2005 Author Share Posted August 21, 2005 Ahhh, so that's the problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AME Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 "Because that's the way it's always been done around here." The AC mantra, having been in the position of the "New Monkey" I can assure you that the story is very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Mitch: I agree completely with your assessment. I think the just of it is that standard practices can become institutionalized and the tendency is to go along with the group rather than to question the why. If you want to see some real nonsense just do a google on "Hundredth Monkey Phenomenon". New-Age collection consciousnous BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 I guess we in this business have a lower brain function than a common primate. It seems we have followed this pattern for years. Just one of the monkeys. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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