Mitch Cronin Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 I have a neighbor who's a dog cop... I'm told his dog doesn't sniff drugs or bombs, but people... dead or alive... Anyway, he's a cop, and rides around in a cop car, and apparently either has some friends that ride around in their helicopter, or he does... I'm not sure which?... But every once in a while, that helicopter does a swing around our neck of town (like just a little while ago), sometimes at about 200 ft or lower even, and sometimes even with the bloody great light on!.... I reckon it might be a way he tells his wife he'll be home soon, so start warming up his dinner.. or something like that... But I'm sure of one thing, if I did that, especially repeatedly, I'd be busted! And while I'm at it, Hey Malcolm, how come you don't always hear "speed was a factor" in aircraft accidents? Hmmmm? Are you gonna tell me it wasn't? Nope.. didn't think so. And what about wheels in car accidents? Aren't they "a factor too?" Don't almost all cars that get into accidents have those rubber balloons around some kind of metal wheel shaped devices? In every blinking accident speed is a factor of course! If they were going no speed the accident couldn't have come to them! Tallying them up in statistics is meaningless! One guy has an accident in a 80 zone while he's doing 100, and "speed was a factor", but it wouldn't have been if he was in a 100 zone? Poppy-feathers! An utterly useless statistic, unless you work for an insurance company and numbers of "convictions" for speeding can allow you to legaly rip a guy off big time. Maybe I'll just have to get rich and buy myself a heliobird to get to work in .... at 200 ft, with the light on.... Hey, if they blind some poor sap on the highway with that thing and he wrecks, will they say speed was a factor? You betcha they would! No offence meant Malcolm, ... just came to mind as I thought of that cop, after he or his friends buzzed us.... and my experiences with them, that's all. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 At 80kph the stopping distance is "X" At 100kph it may be double "X". Therefore: Two vehicles (80 & 100kph) begin breaking at the same point short of a fixed obstacle ahead. The 80 kph vehicle is able to stop inches short of impact while the 100kph vehicle creams the obstacle. Net factor in cause: excessive speed. BTW, he's flying low with the light on so he can see who his wife's entertaining in his absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 As an accident. Only a chain of events that leads to a collision of some other calamity. Mitch,,, you should know in your line of work, and as well as through the Safety and Health committee, that there are no accidents. To use your example, the road that is posted as an 80 zone is because it is designed for that speed. A 100 zone on a highway is for the same reason, so to extrapolate, if you are doing 100 in an 80 then you may be exceeding the design limit for that road and that is the factor in the collision that may result. Not trying to be a snot, just real. Rgds... Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundeffect Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Deicer, wouldn't you agree the signs were developed for '70's technology at best? Yes ,we must cater to the lowest denominator I suppose, but really, 90's and later cars are alot more technologically 'evolved' than before and therfore capable of greater safe performance.Just a thought, cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Maybe the technology is better, but the roads aren't. As well, there is a difference between running that new high-tech auto to it's limit on a track, but when you weave it in and out of the traffic on the 401, speed definitely becomes a hindrance. As I have posted before, when photo radar was first introduced in YYZ, the speeds on the 401 dropped, but the total elapsed time to get across the city was quicker. I guess that was because the traffic was "calmed" and flowed like it is supposed to. I know that kind of attitude rubs some the wrong way, but occasionally, as Spock said, "The good of the many outweighs the good of the one." Rgds... Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundeffect Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 I do agree with Spock on that one.. The roads were tested and signed a long time ago, so I must disagree with that premise. I'm not for 'autobhaun" speeds, but 100 km ph on the 401 is not only unrealistic, but according to cops I have talked with, not expected..I was told they won't even look askance at one 'doin' 120 in a 100 zone..if the whole pack is doing that. Go figure Anyway...the law is the law...end of story. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted January 24, 2004 Author Share Posted January 24, 2004 Ya, ok... the stopping distance ... Like suddenly the brick wall appears... but only in the 80 zone when you're doing 100... not in the 100 zone when you're doing 100... the stopping distance is ok then right... Ya know... You and Deicer, and maybe some others seem to be assuming speeding is all done in traffic.... I tell you I drive on highways that are often almost completely empty. It's not at all uncommon for me to find myself a half a mile, or even more, away from the nearest traffic... but never mind... It's all just pi$sing up a rope.... I think you may have something with regards to the heli and the light. Maybe I should try to arrange to surprise him by running out of his driveway naked next time. :D:D Hang on... maybe not, they probably carry weapons on that thing! :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Still having a problem with authority figures eh Mitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiho Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Speed doesn't kill. It's the unplanned, rapid deceleration that hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Darn Authority Figures....... Re speed, just in YYC, just this year the following were all "speed related" and it seems that all of the drivers thought they could handle it: Just the goto's to save our hosts some bandwidth: 1 dead - http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/citybeat/public/2004/01/release.20040124_041910_28591_0 Few injured: http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/citybeat/public/2004/01/release.20040115_233724_4111_0 2dead 2 injured http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/citybeat/public/2004/01/release.20040115_222448_3338_0 1 critical http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/citybeat/public/2004/01/release.20040115_040223_22785_0 1 critical http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/citybeat/public/2004/01/release.20040101_040446_6867_0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted January 24, 2004 Author Share Posted January 24, 2004 Hiya Malcolm... It's not authority figures I have any trouble with at all... Except when they do things I know they'd nab me for. I do have a bit of trouble with hypocrisy. I also have trouble with laws that are said to be for the general good of the little people... like you and I, yet are clearly, unabashedly, out-in-the-open, cash grabs. You posted the link yourself to the "revenue generating" idea Ontario is toying with of photo-radar... (again)... It's all about the money! They admit it! Malcolm, "speed related"... A lady recently lost control of her vehicle and went head on into the other lanes with tragic results... they called it "speed related"... the truth is she lost control! Do you think she'd have been incapable of "losing control" if she had been going slower? I tell you it's a useless stat because they attach that label to almost all accidents regardless of the true cause. A kid out in his 5 litre Mustang tromps on the pedal on a city street and can't make a corner... that one is truly "speed related"... a fella going 10k over the limit on a country road yakking on his cell phone or fishing in his briefcase goes into the opposing lane nearly hits another car, yanks on the wheel and spins off the road, that's not "speed related", but it'll be called that! Upon the scene of an accident a cop asks himself, "was speed a factor"... in most cases he'll answer, "yes"... why?; because if you look at the same scenario, no matter what it was, and slow down the vehicles enough, of course there wouldn't have been an accident! But it wasn't because they were going too fast that it happened, it was because they weren't paying attention, or weren't looking, or didn't know what to do, or were moving at all! Take a guy on this here 407, going 120 kph... he has a momentary brain fart while changing radio stations, swings into the guy beside him and they both wreck... The cops will ask him "how fast were you driving?"... he's an honest guy and tells them.... (they can figure it out by measuring length of skid marks, witness statements etc, anyway) was speed "a factor"? 10 to 1 the cops will say it was. Useless stat. But don't get me wrong... I'm not advocating total mayhem... The speed limits on city roads are perfectly reasonable, in my view, given the amount and variety of traffic, and pedestrian crossings, etc... It's the highway limits I object to. You know I once had an argument with a man who claimed "changing lanes on the highway is dangerous"... he was astounded that I didn't agree with him. He knew I was wrong! I know that anyone who feels that way should stay the hell off the highway. But they don't... He'll be on that highway, merging before accelerating, avoiding any lane changes, talking on his cell, scribbling notes on his dash mounted pad... fiddling with cd's... chatting with his wife... riding in the left lane and not keeping up with the traffic in front... slowing to look at trouble in the opposing lanes (rubber necking)... left foot resting on the brake pedal... and when he wants to get off, he'll be on his brakes to change lanes, and decelerating before getting in the decel lane... maybe not even signalling... and he knows I was wrong. I had a lot more here, about safe driving, but just deleted it... I don't much care for the nature of the opposition I've gotten in the past... I'll say this though... Most drivers do unsafe things all the time. I'm sure you must see it too... Speeding isn't the number one cause of accidents, improper and unsafe driving is. But I don't see cops pulling people over for all the other stuff... instead they publicize their "blitzes" going after speeders... and people who dope along in the passing lane, or merge with highway flow at ridiculously slow speeds, (and you can add a zillion other unsafe practices here, including one that most people hardly ever think of, and that's simply driving at inconsistent speeds), all feel good about the cops getting those rotten speeders to slow down. I'll leave y'all with one thought, and then I think I'll duck... The single most valuable tip for safe driving I can think of... *Know* that everyone else on the road with you is capable of very foolish moves at any moment... if you count on that (and people often won't let you down there), it can help you stay out of trouble. Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Mitch, not to belabor the point and not to increase bandwidth usage. You and I will never agree on this one. You feel you are a good enough driver to ignore the speed limit and I believe no one is because there are all of those other drivers who will jump out in front of you. End of dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Mitch, not to belabor the point and not to increase bandwidth usage. You and I will never agree on this one. You feel you are a good enough driver to ignore the speed limit and I believe no one is because there are all of those other drivers who will jump out in front of you. Re assigning speed as a blame, most late model cars 95 and up have a black box that records the last 10sec or so prior to impact (includes speed).http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/01/03/303387-cp.html End of dialogue for my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Mitch, not to belabor the point and not to increase bandwidth usage. You and I will never agree on this one. You feel you are a good enough driver to ignore the speed limit and I believe no one is because there are all of those other drivers who will jump out in front of you. Re assigning speed as a blame, most late model cars 95 and up have a black box that records the last 10sec or so prior to impact (includes speed). http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/01/03/303387-cp.html End of dialogue for my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAS Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 To bad the operators have not evolved at the same rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 (Y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sputnik Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Here is a link to the company that manufactures the equipment used to download the data from the module. Facinating stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sputnik Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/edr-site/uploads/Vetronix_System--Info_web-address_faq_order-form-with-technical-data.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sputnik Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/edr-site/uploads/Vetronix_System--Info_web-address_faq_order-form-with-technical-data.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted January 24, 2004 Author Share Posted January 24, 2004 'Tis indeed fascinating stuff, and high time such things were used.... So we should have this conversation 10 years from now to see what statistics show then... Then again, some accidents (I would argue, most!) didn't happen because of the speed at all, but the data will still show the vehicle was speeding, so "speed was a factor" will still be the conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 "I'll leave y'all with one thought, and then I think I'll duck... The single most valuable tip for safe driving I can think of... *Know* that everyone else on the road with you is capable of very foolish moves at any moment... if you count on that (and people often won't let you down there), it can help you stay out of trouble" You must remember something else that is more true than your quote.... You never see the one that gets you! Cheers Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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