Guest WA777 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Referring to "average" wages..... http://www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030704.wtraff0704/BNStory/Business/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest q650 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Yep, and to top it off, the Transport Canada CAI's have through the recent G. Adams been awarded very interesting wages as well. q650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest q650 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Yep, and to top it off, the Transport Canada CAI's have through the recent G. Adams Award been granted very interesting wages as well. Transport jobs look better (pay and quality of life) than most airline jobs in Canada. Makes one wonder doesn't it? q650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 I know that most of the young bucks do not understand the damage that has been done to the airline profession in Canada....Maybe someday they will realize just how hard some of us worked over many many years to improve things for everybody......sadly all the gains are being wiped out by those willing to sell themselves to the lowest bidder and unscrupulous mangement....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 I know that most of the young bucks do not understand the damage that has been done to the airline profession in Canada....Someday they will realize just how hard some of us worked over many many years to improve things for everybody......sadly all the gains are being wiped out by shortsighted individuals, willing to sell themselves to the lowest bidder and unscrupulous management....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fester Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 AC has its' own somewhat unique set of problems requiring appropriate sacrifices from all of its' flight crews.......however you can look at EVERY airline operating in Canada and see numerous examples of how collectively we have taken a giant step backwards...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lupin Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 I am rather uninformed about how much ATC makes in the ways of salary.I had heard the top rate was around 85-90k/year??. Its funny how the goverment workers can get the raises,while the entire airline industry is in the slumps.It almost seems as if they can't see what is happening around them.Air Canada being its largest customer ,is asking for cut from everyone ,suppliers, labour, lessors, creditors and lets not forget...NavCanada. Pure goverment efficiency Lupin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 They are not government workers. NavCanada was cut loose some years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floatrr Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Correct, They are not government workers but they are a monopoly, and the government allowed that. I doubt the government put any kind of restrictions on how much they can be paid ,so I expect that we can see further rising NAV CAN charges despite the ailing airline industry. Yet another mess the federal government has created. Some consistency from those fools in parliament would be much appreciated. Cut one corporation loose (Air Canada) and let them fend for themselves (with restrictions ofcourse ie. Service to small communities for one.) Then cut another one loose (Nav Canada) and let them charge whatever the He11 they want ,even in a sick airline industry. Go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mars Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Once again for those with bad memory: NAVCAN Board of Directors is controlled by the AIRLINES. They have gone out of their way since being created in 1996 to cut costs as much as possible for the user, predominately the airlines. Canadian ANS charges are very cheap for the service provided, and are still lower today then a few years ago. Like many professions in this fine Country, controllers are greatly underpaid for their service. Even with the new contract; and two arbitrators/mediators in a row have put that in their report. Enough for now, bedtime.......zzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marion Vanderlubbe Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Costs are lower? I have three aircraft, two are single seaters and I am the only pilot insured to fly each one. Yet I have to pay NavCan't a fee for each one as though I use all three simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floatrr Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 The board is still responsible for the bottom line at NAV CAN regardless of where they are from. Do you think those individuals (from the airlines) really care how much their own companies pay for ATS? I think not. The fact remains is that NAV CAN IS A MONOPOLY the only difference now ATS is not resposible to the tax payers to the bottom line, therefore costs will eventually be out of control. Not that being resposible to the tax payers contols costs with this government anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leftbase Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 "I have three aircraft, two are single seaters..." Gee whiz, I have an old Pontiac and a bicycle and I thought I was doing well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsgas Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Once again for the "spin artists" Nav Canada is a GOVERNMENT manadated monopoly. They grap what they want from the taxpayers and the GOVERNMENT aircraft at all levels pay ZERO for the service. So nice try but this fails the free enterprise test.Long live the Peoples Soviet Union of Canada eh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MURRAY Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 If the airline representatives on the board truly do not care how much their companies pay for ATC service, then why was such a ridiculous amount of money rebated to the airlines in the first (and second, and third) place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 ...."Someday they will realize just how hard some of us worked over many many years to improve things for everybody".... ...that's OAC at the expense of all others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tri-spool Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 I agree. In fact it was the junior pilots who are getting waxed with layoffs while the big fat pensions are being retained. Nice job guys! Thanks for the layoff notice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 It's unfortunate you can't see past your loathing for ACPA and AC...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 It's unfortunate you can't see past your loathing for ACPA and AC...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydee Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Someday......you too will be glad the pensions were saved......even you will retire at some point......I'd love to hear your comments then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Maybe it isn't loathing; just a realistic perspective as to ACPA's "mission statement"---protect and advance the interests of its members however that might best be achieved. That function is not necessarily illegitimate but in its implementation, certainly will give offence to those whose employment is jeopardized as a result. Defcon has written at length about Picher. Implicit in his remarks is the understanding that AC pilots sought merger in the belief that AO pilots would be at the bottom of a merged list and, as a result, junior AC pilots would have the benefit of a buffer between themselves and layoff. Picher put a wrench in that plan and so......Obviously, the philosophical difference is between those who believe in employer-based loyalty and those whose fealty is to the "profession". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Thank you for the response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neo Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 "Obviously, the philosophical difference is between those who believe in employer-based loyalty and those whose fealty is to the "profession"." That's an interesting comment. I wonder if you'd mind elaborating on what you mean by it, and which 'belief' you assign to which group. Thanks, neo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 I don't believe the concept is new. I'm suggesting that the "ACPA group" resolved that compliance with union rules (adherence to the principles of unionism) was a less compelling motivation than the perceived immediate benefit derived from re-defining their brethren from "airline pilots" to "Air Canada pilots"; hence my characterization of employer-based loyalty distinguished from professional fealty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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