An Ontario Prayer

[Guest alkaid]

You seem to be confused re the difference between a specific threat and a humerous comment.

You could be right. So I will take the high road and wish Ontario's premier all the best. In a new career as soon as possible where he will have much more opportunity to be with his family.

[Moon The Loon]

Oh, gawd...he's back...

[Kip Powick]

Oh, gawd...he's back...

yeh, so I noticed, as well..

[dagger]

I'm with Fido and Chock on this. Never really funny to even invite someone's death.

I guess KIP's just angry that he has to pay a few dollars more – a fairer share – for all of the benefits he gets that are allowing him to enjoy his retirement. Good medical care was never more expensive, what with new drugs and treatments, but KIP's big income tax paying days are behind him. Instead, we get this fine whine.

This is the problem across North America. Not bad politicians per se (though there are some) but an irresponsible citizenry which will sell the votes for promises of this or that, even though there is mounting evidence that certain jurisdictions - in the US as well as Canada - can't afford this level of entitlement. And yet we march blindly toward the abyss.

So what are we going to do to keep KIP and his generation in adult diapers? Well, we'll pass the cost along to our grandchildren.

Everybody wants more, and they someone else to pay for it. Remember what the pensioner who told Mulroney about cutting her benefits? Do it, and it's goodbye Charlie Brown.

Raise the retirement age for government pensions and OAS? Nobody wants to hear of it.

You want to raise my retirement age? I'm for it, whether I work to 67 or not, I'll wait for my government old age payments.

You want to tax me a little more for the services I believe we need? I'm for it.

Let's have responsible public policy, but to do so we need a responsible citizenry which is ready for some belt tightening and even demands it. A citizenry ready to make hard choices will get a better class of politicians to do it for them.

The problem isn't them. It's us. It's a citizenry that keeps expecting more, while believing they can pay less to get it (and if it costs more, tax somebody else).

And whatever I say about Canada, it goes x10 for the US.

[Guest alkaid]

I'm with Fido and Chock on this. Never really funny to even invite someone's death.

I guess KIP's just angry that he has to pay a few dollars more a fairer share for all of the benefits he gets that are allowing him to enjoy his retirement. Good medical care was never more expensive, what with new drugs and treatments, but KIP's big income tax paying days are behind him. Instead, we get this fine whine.

This is the problem across North America. Not bad politicians per se (though there are some) but an irresponsible citizenry which will sell the votes for promises of this or that, even though there is mounting evidence that certain jurisdictions - in the US as well as Canada - can't afford this level of entitlement. And yet we march blindly toward the abyss.

So what are we going to do to keep KIP and his generation in adult diapers? Well, we'll pass the cost along to our grandchildren.

Everybody wants more, and they someone else to pay for it. Remember what the pensioner who told Mulroney about cutting her benefits? Do it, and it's goodbye Charlie Brown.

Raise the retirement age for government pensions and OAS? Nobody wants to hear of it.

You want to raise my retirement age? I'm for it, whether I work to 67 or not, I'll wait for my government old age payments.

You want to tax me a little more for the services I believe we need? I'm for it.

Let's have responsible public policy, but to do so we need a responsible citizenry which is ready for some belt tightening and even demands it. A citizenry ready to make hard choices will get a better class of politicians to do it for them.

The problem isn't them. It's us. It's a citizenry that keeps expecting more, while believing they can pay less to get it (and if it costs more, tax somebody else).

And whatever I say about Canada, it goes x10 for the US.

Must say that I have to agree with your excellent analysis Dagger. Part of the long term demise of the west will be how they spent there way there, demanded by the public for more and more and politicians willing to buy votes with debt. Some want to spend their way into oblivion and others have a ideological thing against any tax rise no matter how desperatly it has become needed.

[Guest]

Must say that I have to agree with your excellent analysis Dagger. Part of the long term demise of the west will be how they spent there way there, demanded by the public for more and more and politicians willing to buy votes with debt. Some want to spend their way into oblivion and others have a ideological thing against any tax rise no matter how desperatly it has become needed.

Kip,

for what it is worth, I got the JOKE!!!! and it was funny, but unfortunately the Liberal political correctness crowd seems to disagree.

So I offer up a satirical view point on political correctness,hope you enjoy!

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous Liberal mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of crap by the clean end."

[boestar]

Suffice it to say that I (ahem) agree with Dagger. WE are our own worst enemies. The populace expects more for less and the only way to do that is to take revenue from higher taxation. Western societies decline is based solely on GREED and a misplaced sense of entitlement.

[Kip Powick]

I'm with Fido and Chock on this. Never really funny to even invite someone's death.

I guess KIP's just angry that he has to pay a few dollars more – a fairer share – for all of the benefits he gets that are allowing him to enjoy his retirement. Good medical care was never more expensive, what with new drugs and treatments, but KIP's big income tax paying days are behind him. Instead, we get this fine whine.

This is the problem across North America. Not bad politicians per se (though there are some) but an irresponsible citizenry which will sell the votes for promises of this or that, even though there is mounting evidence that certain jurisdictions - in the US as well as Canada - can't afford this level of entitlement. And yet we march blindly toward the abyss.

So what are we going to do to keep KIP and his generation in adult diapers? Well, we'll pass the cost along to our grandchildren.

Well Dagger, I know it is a given, Lord knows you have demonstrated many times.................nop sense of humour

And the fine, "whine"...where did I post anything about taxes, my costs of living, pension, medical issues, etc.,or have you just decided to shout out my name (Caps) and use me as an example to express your POV?

You have no idea of my financial status, no idea of my tax bracket, nor do you have any idea what I think about any government party, other than my prolific thoughts about how our government has sent many of of our young men to needlessly die in a sprawling rock pile.

So posting a "joke" has now become offensive to the tender ears of Dagger who takes great pride in his ability to personally call some posters "lap-dogs" amongst other denigrating adjectives.

[deicer]

Kip

One must ask of Dagger as well, if he thinks that we have to bite the bullet because all the services we enjoy cost more, where does all the money go for these services?

It is a demonstrated fact that it hasn't gone to labour. The majority of those who work in North America have seen their wages cut, and if not, frozen for the last decade. We've done our bit to try to get by on what we make, so again one has to respectfully ask...

Where does that money go?

Have politicians taken pay cuts to the same extent?

Have CEO's taken pay cuts?

It isn't Joe Public who is willing to pass along the costs to our grandchildren, IMHO.

It is a situation created to wholey ensure the lifestyles of the rich and famous with absolutely no consideration for those who do the work.

I wonder what excuses Dagger will come up with when the average guy in India, China, Vietnam, etc decides that he wants a pay raise.

Not much said about the strikes and working conditions in the Third World in the Western press, is there?

Iceman

[dagger]

Kip

One must ask of Dagger as well, if he thinks that we have to bite the bullet because all the services we enjoy cost more, where does all the money go for these services?

It is a demonstrated fact that it hasn't gone to labour. The majority of those who work in North America have seen their wages cut, and if not, frozen for the last decade. We've done our bit to try to get by on what we make, so again one has to respectfully ask...

Where does that money go?

Have politicians taken pay cuts to the same extent?

Have CEO's taken pay cuts?

It isn't Joe Public who is willing to pass along the costs to our grandchildren, IMHO.

It is a situation created to wholey ensure the lifestyles of the rich and famous with absolutely no consideration for those who do the work.

I wonder what excuses Dagger will come up with when the average guy in India, China, Vietnam, etc decides that he wants a pay raise.

Not much said about the strikes and working conditions in the Third World in the Western press, is there?

Iceman

Actually, deicer, I know youd like to blame the capitalist rich for everything, even bloated public sector wages and pensions - especially the latter - but it doesn't work for me. You're just offloading the problem onto mythical demons. Though not in the top tax bracket, I have no problems with current tax rates, and I'm willing to pay the real cost of hydro and other services. I got my largest hydro bill ever this summer, but I didn't complain about it. I took action, and further adjusted my household energy consumption. With world oil prices almost certainly doubling or tripling in the next decade, coal prices will rise, natural gas will rise, and so will all costs associated with fossil fuel consumption. Energy costs are going to keep on rising regardless of who runs the government. So I'm getting ready.

You ask about whether the Western press covers third world strikes and working conditions. Maybe you should read a little more, and you'd know how Chinese workers in particular have been striking, and getting wage increases, that will be passed through to everything manufactured in China. The labor unrest has begun in plants that manufacture systems for western OEMs, like Apple, or Japanese carmakers. That has helped Chinese workers get big increases. As for what happens when the third world worker becomes more middle class? Well, it's happening already, and if it means I pay more for a toaster, so be it. Better yet, when oil prices double, with luck, we can repatriate some of that manufacturing to the Americas, if not to Canada, at least to Mexico and the Caribbean, which will benefit our overall economic health in the region. Then maybe Wal-Mart will have to pay a bit more for their goods, and - "Attention Wal-Mart and K-Mart shoppers" - you will be broken of your addiction to cheap Chinese goods.

It's nice to say the enemy is somebody else, but if you look at the looming bankruptcy of California, you'll see the role public sector unions have played in building entitlements that are no longer affordable. Why should one sector of the work force, by virtue of working for the state, enjoy pay, benefits and job security out of all proportions to what the majority of employed people are making in the private sector? When the economy was growing, it was possible to sweep this issue under the rug, but with a decade of stagnation ahead of us, an aging population (shrinking revenues and steadily rising health care costs), the math is irrefutable. And it's everybody's issue.

Here's a factoid for you, and it's a reason I am so mistrustful of politicians who cater to us, the irresponsible masses.

Eight four percent of US government expenditures are on entitlements - Social Security, Medicare, Interest on the National Debt, and Defence. If the US stopped spending on all non-defence programs other than entitlements, fired every single government employee in non-defence areas, the US would still be running a deficit. And trillions of dollars of debt will be added in the next decade. And yet the Republicans will not raise taxes - though US taxes have been a lot higher and are well below our tax rates, with no GST - and are committed to restore Medicare cuts initiated by Obama. And we know their vows to cut spending are hollow. They only talk about cutting spending, not doing anything substantive. But that's what the Tea Partiers - disproportionately older, white, monied voters - want. They want their entitlements restored/protected. They don't give a rat's rear about future generations.

No sacrifice there.

We just had a municipal election that swept into office one of their fake conservatives. Rob Ford ran on a stop-the-gravy-train platform, in which he promised to cut the size of council (good luck) and cut the perks of councillors. Together, those officeholders and perks represent a tiny fraction of the budget in a city scrambling to avoid major deficits. But Ford did offer to cut two taxes which together, generate over $200 million in revenue, or ten times as much as the cuts he has promised. Get the picture? Not one economist quoted during the campaign said that Ford's math added up to a balanced budget. They all thought it was voodoo economics. But hey, a plurality of Torontonians bought that crap. (And I don't think the other candidates were any better).

Why do politicians play this game. Because people like you pay lip service to the notion of shared sacrifice. I'll never vote for a politician who promises tax cuts. I'd love to find one (and right now, it ain't Hudak who won't say what he will cut, if anything). I'd certainly vote for one who can outline a serious case for belt-tightening, and higher taxes if we want to keep all services, but the public won't support that person or party (unless they are convinced the tough talk is all fake.)

Right now, politicians don't have the ability to have an adult conversation with their electors because a rival will undercut their argument with bullshit. If cuts are necessary, a rival will imply otherwise just to get elected.

And the majority of voters will happily believe the guy who says you can have it all, pain free, and even more.

[deicer]

Good Morning Dagger

First off, I won't argue with you about the politicians, it is something we agree on

As for hating the capitalistic rich, it's not a matter of hate, rather, it is such that they should share in the ups and downs in economic reality and not expect ever increasing ROI's on the back of the rest of society. To use your example of California and the rest of the States (which seems to be the global leader in this rot) after the second world war, when the American Dream was started, everyone was onboard with allowing the 'average Joe' to have a decent lifestyle. The system worked as long as everybody played along.

Then came the 80's. A poster child for that age, and what went wrong, imo, is Jack Welch. He was the first to make the play to have major jobs exported to the third world. That's not saying it wasn't happening earlier, he just turned it into a big league sport. Sure, it was great for profits, but for how long? Pretty soon every other industry jumped on the bandwagon, and now we're back into a situation like the late 19th Century with the robber barons. Cheap labour, big profits, and life is good, no? The one thing that they fail to take into account is the fact that instead of growing the market for the goods and services, they have cut the legs out from underneath it.

Now they are realising that the average guy is starting to figure it out, and they try to placate the masses by saying that we all have to cut back to ensure the system works and that we don't dump the burden on our grandchildren. What a load of hooey!

They created this economic reality to benefit themselves. Globalisation has been no good for anyone. All it allowed is for the big players to play their games and fill their pockets. Guess what, they told us it was better to play in a bigger pool. The only problem now, is they have displaced all the water in the pool, and fouled what is left over. There is nowhere else to go.

Hopefully, one day the average guy in North America will put down the remote and wake up to the reality of what is going on around them. This system cannot continue, and one day, hopefully we'll see people realising that they've been had much like they have in Europe. Do you think you will ever see mass strikes and demonstrations here like they've had in Europe lately? What do you think the tipping point will be?

The American Empire created this mess, and now that Empire is set to fall.

All I can say is, can you speak Mandarin?

Cheers

Iceman

[deicer]

Further to the above...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/us-authorities-preparing-charges-in-massive-insider-trading-investigation-report/article1807188/

Seems the party is coming to an end, if not being slowed down.

Iceman

[boestar]

Not all wars are won on a battlefield using bullets and taking lives. some wars are won on the economic front and right now China is poised to be the big winner. Holding fully 85 percent of the US debt China could very well OWN the USA in short order. A quiet war that takes the "lives" of every citizen. So all those americans with their guns and ammo forgot to cover thieir economic asses and will pay dearly.