Kip Powick Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 Don, You brought the topic up, not me. Yes I did and I have no regrets in doing so.. Most of us have indeed moved on, so why do you constantly bring up Air Canada's past as an excuse for present problems? If there is a problem, it had an origin, did it not? If you read my previous answers to other posters you will see that I feel that the problem started away back…hence the brief introduction concerning the “history of AC. insulting as my inappropriate "buck-fifty" comment, for which I now unreservedly apologize. Don, apology accepted….It would be impossible to stay angry with an individual so well versed in today’s prose and art of conciliatory rebuttal and if I have insulted you I do apologize, it was not my intent. Was there a serious solution to serious, present problems which was new or untried and which might succeed? Was there something there we, as OAC, weren't aware of? If so, I frankly didn't see it. Yes, and to many it was most obvious. AC lived in a vacuum. The methodology was stale and the Flight Ops/Standards department was not open to new ideas. …….and here I only speak from a pilots POV. I am sure you are well aware of the changes that were finally invoked after the two teams got together. It was similar to DND/CF where we worked for decades with the attitude that “if you can build it, you can fly it” which did not change until the early 80s when we all realized that there had to be a better way. There was a reluctance by the older guys to accept change but they had to or be "left on the beach", and eventually they saw the light. In AC.... not so easy, probably because of the resentment over the merger but also because AC was very slow in adopting the swift changes that were coming into the industry. I am not being defensive in my response in the least. "Defensive" means someone is devoted to fending off attacks by opponents so that one is constantly, and perhaps unduly, always the top "bidder" in action or dialogue. One is not being defensive when one is in rebuttal, one is engaging the dialogue which I chose to do. I am responding in fact, with regard to what you criticize me and others for: - looking to the past, referencing old history, telling a story about employees' attitudes as a result of being "coddled by the government" while the poor western mistreated, struggling privately-funded airline was ignored. In some ways that was the case as history shows - yes, the government and McGregor were very forceful, but the quotes from Wingwalker, which is the reason I pulled them into the post, also show that said "mistreatment" wasn't all from one quarter. What I am seeking is not to "win", but mere balance-in-reporting. I think I know where you are coming from with respect to balance but that is not the issue. The issue is NOW and what can be done to enhance, not only AC’s image, but its operational features. That being said, it is of paramount importance to garner public support, to be seen as “the” airline to fly on. The behind the scenes operational functions can be enhanced as time goes by but the perception of the airline is what will make or break the airline and that can only be accomplished by a change in attitude of the front line workers and a change of personal agendas. How about this…??… ACPA as a leader, comes out and issues a Press statement that due to the economic downturn worldwide, there will be no requirement for the company to renegotiate their WAWCON contract until 2011. blah-blah blah etc etc. Will that happen? I dunno but think of the negotiating capital and goodwill the pilot group could garner with the public with a statement like that. As an aside there would be no worry about getting to the Olympics. If they made that release would that not show a fantastic work ethic/change of attitude on their part and set a bar pretty high for the other unions to grasp.?? As far as the rest of your posted rebuttal goes, I think we are close to the same page and harbour many of the same feelings. I do not couch my feeling and opinions as diplomatically as you do but then again I have never been known as an extremely "tactful" individual much to "her" embarassment at times. I think everyone can see there are problems in AC perhaps more than other industry participants but they can be over come but there has to be a willingness to "get 'er done" and there is no better place to start that with a new, enhanced and fresh attitude by the employees.......or is that goal unattainable given todays management and employees collective attitudes? I truly hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 .... ... sigh.... Ok, sing it with me and see if it doesn't make you smile a little... ... gonna hear some funky dixie-land .... pretty mama gonna take me by the hand..... Take me by the hand, HAND take me by the hand pretty mama gonna hear some honky tonk..... There... Anybody feel any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 evening Mitch....they makin' that golden elixar stronger now-a-days??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Awww heck, I guess I should add my opinion to the mix while I'm here... Kip, I love ya man, but I think there is a bit of a s#!t disturber in you. There's a lot of truth here, in various posts... The merger was badly botched. You guys at AC were sold a pile of manure and it hurt as you slowly realized the difference between reality and that pile of crap. We were clearly the source of that pain, so none of what we were, would be stood for.... hence, all of the hard-learned, well tuned and efficient practices and procedures and methods, ...and absolutely anything that wasn't red.... had to be disposed of. No synergy was to be realized, only disonance.... Huge losses there... The sum of what had been many well experienced airlines was discarded... And on the podium for that... conducting the whole mess, with his incredible micro-management, was the man who just twisted the knife on his way out the door. We all got hosed here and we all know it. The merger problems still hurt many of us, but we've seen past it well enough to function as a team. I just hope we survive this next year... I think we've been set up to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MURRAY Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Doobies...Black Water..Excellent reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Mississippi moon won't ya keep on shinin' on me.... Keep on Shinin' your light Gonna make everything... gonna make everything allright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MURRAY Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Tom Johnston kicks Mike McDonalds ass.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MURRAY Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 And yes, Kip is definitely a sh&t disturber.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Tom Johnston kicks Mike McDonalds ass.. Ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MURRAY Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Deep down, I think he's just a good ole boy. Enjoying your Strat Mr. Cronin? (Rhetorical Question). Fer sure, thread hijacking...Big deal.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Actually I've enjoyed this post as some honest opinons from both sides were expressed. As a Res/Tkt/crusty ole checkin agent it's been good to hear other departments opinons. I've said it before but in today's market where all companies are crying out for workers, why would you work for an airline at 9.50hr with the ugly hours when you can work at other jobs paying 13.00hr? Loyalty not these days. You go where the money is because they need it to survive. Every base had different issues to deal with. In my base we had a few CAIL workers transfer in and they fit in like a glove. No problems. Before the merger Cail ( AA involvement) had pulled out and changed the base to Canadian Regional. The Cail employees were given a choice to transfer to a Cail base and retain their senority or stay here and lose their senority. 90% opted to stay and lose senority due to family committments. After the merger, we AC and the Regional maintained separate counters. Then the Regional staff vacated their counter for WJ and moved in with us. We were still run as 2 separate entities. Then the day came when we merged around 2004. It wasn't pleasant as we had less employees than they did and because AC started replacing our 320's with 737's . They were allowed to keep their Ops position because the 737's weren't equiped with Datalink. To us at AC this was a step backwards because even our Dash8's had Datalink. To make a long story shorter soon the Regional workers started to tell us how to do our jobs. This from people who had worked perhaps 8 years to people who had 20 and more years experience. Did it go over well-not! Did we let it go down and not complain- yes, it was our fault for not speaking up. But we had no supervisor or manager because the powers that be decided that the small bases could be consolidated and handled by YWG. Any mechnical problems with an aircraft now have to wait for a mechanic and the parts to be flown in from eithe YYC or YWG. As Mitch said, they've set us up to fail! No disrespect meant to anyone but it's just how I saw it. It definately is a different time and I'm glad I'm a Dot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 Newgirl.......luv you too Glad you had a good life and we probably did actually "see" each other as I did a few flights into your domain. I would be easy to recognize, typical pilot.....6'2", straight teeth, crooked smile, greying at the temples and always wore my hat at a jaunty angle..(Mitch/Murray will verify for you.) Mitch.....you know the song..."Tear it Down"--.Def Leppard?? Someday, my friend, some day....and you...??keep dreaming of those starry places far, far away...never be saddled with a limited imagination and I trust you can remember that final breakfast where we both agreed that "if you can't take the heat get out of etc etc." Murray..........same ole ..same ole...nice to see that you are still lurking here and I luv when you come out of the wood work when you want to spar or chuck sheet at moi go fer it man as you know I can take it. You still in the mushroom factory?? Murray Christmas and I may be out your way in the very near future. Anyhow,... for all....yeh... its only an opinion and we all have one, just like that orfice imbedded in our bodies..words can annoy you but they can never kill you and in the end lively discussions are what opens the door to knowledge and turns off the light of ignorance. Have a nice weekend and on this forum we can still say "Merry Christmas" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 An excellent way to end this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAT3DUAL Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 "An excellent way to end this thread!" As useless as it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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