Good Grief !

[Kip Powick]

Pistol packin' schoolies

Is this a good idea ?

[boestar]

ummmm....NO.

[Canus Chinookus]

air marshalls for schools! Just train them properly, that's all. You just can't trust a vigilante like you used to!

[Guest ACSideStick]

How many of these awkward introverted cowards walk into a police station and start blasting? They want to "get even" and make themselves remembered for something ie"mass murder" before taking the coward's way out. If they just wanted to die, they can do that alone in a bathroom.

These cowards prey on the unarmed and schools are a great place to find those whose perceived "challenges" are less than their own, and so you might as well take some of these successes with you.

Knowing that you won't even get your shotgun out of your trench coat before dieing in a hail of classmates bullets will make them look elsewhere for prey.

Their intent is to terrorize and be recognized.

ElAl has it right. "Ladies and Gentleman, for your protection there are several armed mossad agents on board, but we aren't going to tell you who they are."

The heroic teachers, who have died, by blocking a door to defend their students, used the only weapon of defence they had, which was their bodies. If those same teachers had a gun, does anyone think they would have died so helpless?

These Utah students have every right to decide if they will live or die, if the situation arises. Let's not forget the debacles by authorities in some of the large shootings who refused to immediately render assistance until a. more backup arrived, b. Thing literally "died" down for a while.

In the meantime, the fish in a barrel inside the school continued.

[Kip Powick]

W-O-W.....Your opinion and I know you are entitled to it but to advocate kids have the right to carry concealed weapons to a school is, in my opinion, the wrong way to go.

First, there should be no reason to have a weapon at school Use metal detectors at the door, every door and make sure not one gun enters the school. I would not want my kid sitting beside some wacko who may have had a bad morning, missed the bus, PO'd at his folks, kicked the cat and in a fit of rage pulls a weapon and starts to shoot.

There is something terribly wrong with society if the youth of today have to carry guns in a "learning establishment" and what is that problem.....?..........don't ask me cause I'll PO a lot of people with my antiquated opinion..I know.

[deicer]

There is something terribly wrong with society if the youth of today have to carry guns in a "learning establishment" and what is that problem.....?..........don't ask me cause I'll PO a lot of people with my antiquated opinion..I know.

I second that sentiment

Iceman

[Say Again, Over!]

There is something terribly wrong with society if the youth of today have to carry guns in a "learning establishment" and what is that problem.....?..........don't ask me cause I'll PO a lot of people with my antiquated opinion..I know.

I third that sentiment....

Felix

[J.O.]

Fourth!

Well said Kip. And I'm not afraid to say that a lack of real parenting is a major causal factor (ie you're their parent first, their friend second).

Bad enough that the TDSB has done in one fell swoop what the biggots in the US south failed to do (segregate students on the basis of race). Now we're going to encourage a violent culture by allowing students to arm themselves. Yeah. That's a great idea!

[Guest ACSideStick]

Kip, My sister-in-law's sister was at WR Myers during the shooting in Taber and ran for her life over the body of 17 year old Jason Lang, so perhaps my perspective is different than yours.

Jason Lang was a student-athlete and one of the least likely people to bully Smith (the murderer). He spent time in Mexico building homes for the poor. His pastor-father was an anti-bullying lecturer.

It was determined that this shooting was completly random, and Lang was not singled out, just in the line of fire.

In his brief life, he did more good than most, and had he lived, would have forgave his shooter, like his own parents have.

He was like that.

Is his good life worth less than this bottom of the barrel murderer that killed him?

Jason Lang lives on in the form a scholarships, and lecture circuits. Everyone wants to weigh in on the liberal subject of how to help the criminal before he acts, but no one wants to talk realisticaly about how to keep victims from becoming victims. There has always been, and will always be predators. They go after things that look the easiest. These students in Utah are saying that principle responsibility for their safety is themselves, and not police called after the fact.

You say that metal detectors should be used and security measures increased. If we can't keep guns and knives off of airplanes, it won't work in schools. That horse has already bolted from the barn.

My niece plays basketball in PHX. There are now schools which they can no longer play at because of the level of violence when they play has become life threatening. They had to have police escorts for the trip in, the game, and getting back to the bus because PARENTS would throw rocks and bottles at them. Those violent schools already have metal detectors, and police in every few classrooms, and yet they still find a way.

Kip, you used to be a fighter pilot, did you not?

If you were ever jumped, was your first reaction to drop all stores, slow down to flap speed, turn your tail to give a good heat signature and die?

Even though you carried bombs and rockets, did you ever "go nuts" and bomb your neighbours because they didn't invite you to the BBQ?

Of course not. You could have, but wouldn't. These kids in Utah are the same. They realize that it would be the worst thing they ever had to do, but if ever needed, are prepared to do it. I think that deserves our respect.

[Kip Powick]

Your relatives had a very bad experience and that is very unfortunate but I think you have let that experience color your whole outlook on the problem. I have no stats but I would think that the vast majority of kids DO NOT want any weapons in school. If I am wrong, then this country is screwed up beyond salvage.

Airplanes/pilots/bombs/air to air..you can not even step in the same ball park with a trained professional and a young student engrossed in the learning curve, so there is no real point on commenting on such a comparison.

J.O. touched on one aspect of the youth of today and I feel the same way. Every child is a product of their environment and in my opinion, many parents, in their never ending goal to be at the "top", are neglecting those they have brought into this world. The family core is slowly crumbling. So sad.

[Guest ACSideStick]

Kip, you type too fast.

I removed that line right after I posted it.

I realized I read too much into what you said, Sorry.

As far as professionals verses students, lots of US students are ROTC and have full training in weapon use. I don't think age makes the difference either. Their friends are dying in Iraq at age 18. If they are old enough to die for their country, they should be old enough to protect their lives as well.

[Guest ACSideStick]

Kip

I agree that this kids needing guns in school is wrong. I am only saying that unless someone can protect them better, they have the right to protect themselves.

I also agree that much of what we see is a result of the weakening of the family unit. As parents continue to rely on others to raise thier kids, or better yet, feel someone else can do a better job, the decline will continue.

[Canus Chinookus]

last time I checked, 21 years old is official 'adult' status.

[deicer]

If you have kids in the school system, it is obvious that society is going down hill. Not to say there aren't good teachers, but the majority have gone from wanting to be educators, to wanting to have just a good job.

As well, parents are too much into the 'buddy' thing rather than being a parent. Just ask around with the children you know and see how many don't have a big screen, gaming system, ipod, computer, etc. Great distractions so that they don't have to pay attention to their kids. So the kids then look for attention by hanging out with their friends in gangs.

How can this be combatted?

Volunteer for a local youth group. Scouts, Big Brothers and Sisters, after school activities all are starving for volunteers to make their programs work.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Too many children don't have a guiding influence in their lives because the parents choose, or are forced, to work long hours and don't have the true goal of parenting in focus. That focus should be on raising their children, not going to the bar after work, not spending weekends golfing with buddies, but spending the time to teach and enjoy their children. Too many parents pawn their kids off on others hoping that they will show them some discipline. It has to come from home.

I can speak from experience, there is nothing more satisfying than walking through the local mall and hearing my 'Pack' name being screamed out and then having a little one run up to you to tell you about the latest cool thing they've done.

That, my friends, is the real reward.

Iceman