Say Again, Over!

Thanks rudder, I wasn't sure if they had found out that it was pilot action or not.

Reminiscent of the Rostov crash?

Blues, We never really run out of candidates. The good ones, that have just the right amount of crazy, are however hard to find. We have increased our qualification rate (at least here, in Montreal) somewhat by reassigning some trainees to another sector when it looks like they might not make it in the initial sector they were assigned to. Even though they might be headed for a wall in a certain unit, their kind of crazy might work best in another type of control. Terminal is one thing, high level enroute another and low-level-non-radar is, as well, totally different. Having the trainees paid right from the start is good all around. Some thought that only those ready to do it for free would be motivated enough to do it but what we ended up with was often some kids living at home with mom and dad paying everything and packing them lunches or some having to have a job on the side to pay rent and washing out simply because they couldn't keep up. Either way, it wasn't working. We have worked and continue to work on our selection process since that is the key to finding the best candidates for the job.

j.k. That's awesome! That explains exactly what happens and I really think our "kids" need to understand this a bit better. Thanks a lot!!! Felix

conehead, True, but with this "overly specific" request, I thought I'd get something less generic from my "aviation family" on the AEF.

Hi everybody, In the process of explaining the RNAV-Y approaches into CYOW to our trainees, I'd like to be able to show them what you see on the FMC up to, and beyond, the beginning of the approaches. For example, what does the fix list on the FMC look like before and after we give you the approach? What does it look like before we advise you we're unable to give the RNP AR transition and after you punched in whatever it is you punch in? That would help us much! Any type of aircraft would be great. More than one, even better! Felix

Kip! Post your next reply in French and let me have at ya!

Can they do as many passes with biggers jets than a fleet of CL415s can? I understand they can clubber a fire with a huge load of water from the bigger jets but do they have enough airplanes to have a constant supply of drops? Maybe the CL415 is just not suited for this area because of the scarcity of nearby lakes or is it just the USA way of not using something because it's not "American"?

Ha ha!! Doesn't sound like me! We do have the luxury of airspace and lower aircraft density in both CYOW and CYQB so we do try and accomodate as best as we can. Having said that, we try, as the NY controller did, to get everybody to go in the same direction as the previous one went. It just makes sense, even though things evolve and you get the inevitable surprise. In this situation, everytime the NY controller takes EIN around, there's another departure for the same airway departing underneath that has to go on course otherwise it'll snowball and completely get away from him. Simplest thing is to keep EIN spinning. It sucks but he's "safe" away from the cell and the flow keeps moving. In such restricted airspace, the disruption to the flow also becomes a safety issue so the key is to minimize it by finding the one aircraft on which it hinges and "removing" him. My conclusion is that the pilot was not only within his right to request the deviations but required to do so by all principles of aviation safety (as in don't knowingly do something going beyond acceptable risk). The flip side is that the NY controller then handled the situation in a safe and orderly fashion to the best of his airspace and weather restrictions.

Great study with implications in ATC as well.

Vsplat, Interesting comment! We are trained and obligated to pass traffic information based on where the airplane is at. In fact, if no overlap of the targets will happen or if we operate at more that what is required for wake-turbulence separation, we don't have to give traffic info. I agree that the latest incidents indicate that a review of the criteria might be wise.

As a devout, church-going, Bible reading Christian, I find the justification for the spending of so much money ridiculous and offensive. I'm no fan of Copeland, Duplantis and other preachers of the prosperity gospel. They drag the name of Jesus-Christ in the mud! I have no sympathy for their financial "struggles" and I'm quite disgusted by their extortion of so much money from people who are indeed looking for a true friend. Kip, having "known" you all these years, I know better than to take offence. But... my friend is real!

Interesting that the compressor disk seems intact... did the front just fall off?

Mind you, back then, men put a suit on every time they went out in public, whether it was to go to the general store or to church unless it was for work, in which case they had on their "work" clothes. So it's not unreasonable to expect them to wear a suit in an airplane. Flying wasn't the reason for being snappily dressed, is what I'm saying.