Kip Powick Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Have been on a few AC Union websites and............ During much of my aviation career I was not a member of any union because…as we all know, DND does not have unions…thank goodness. When I moved, initially to WD, I had my first experience with unions and from then on was always a member of a union, (pilot). I don’t have any heartache with pilot unions as I imagine many purport that they are a necessary evil and I certainly don’t want to debate the pros and cons of these employee institutions …but…there is one wee facet that just drives me wild…perhaps because I am a WW II buff. For some inexplicable reason every time I see a document signed “in solidarity” my mind conjures up this picture of misguided fanatics standing in a coliseum, hands raised in tribute to one sadistic cretin. Not one pilot union I have been a member of uses this term in any of its correspondence but I notice that many other unions do and was wondering why? Oh, I know it is supposed to make the reader full of pride to be standing tall, shoulder to shoulder, with their fellow worker bees fighting the constant oppression from the folks that are paying their wages, but really……..I think it sounds/reads outdated and juvenile. Just my opinion …from away out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I agree Kip. I think it's an industrial union thing... trying to sound like poor hard done by Polish dock workers or something... They've completely watered down the meaning of "solidarity". They even sign their internal battle documents the same way.... to paraphrase: Dear Generalissimo, you are dead wrong and I'll get you.. watch your back. In Solidarity, El Presidente Meaningless words coming from these types, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozerboy Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Kip, Can I suggest that the reason for this is that, when in your airline career have pilots as a whole ever been in solidarity? EVER? Air Canada vs Air Ontario Eastern Pacific vs CP Air Canadian vs CRA Air Canada vs Canadian Air Canada vs Jazz "The list is long and notorious, but then again so is my Johnson"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Can I suggest that the reason for this is that, when in your airline career have pilots as a whole ever been in solidarity? EVER? Dozer Truer words never spoken. When you see a strike in Europe, all members of the organisations support each other. It is a truly Canadian phenomenon that even within the same union, nobody cares for anyone else. Is this because we are trying too hard to be good little Capitalists and look out only for our own self interests? The bigger issues are often overlooked because of this. As I've said before, time to identify the "REAL" enemy and fight him..... Rgds... Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 Iceman-dozerboy Both of you have gone off on a tangent, The original intent of the initial post was to debate/discuss, in my opinion, the out dated method of signing union documents. Re- Read my post if you must, but I am not discussing the merits of Union vs Union or the "battle from within". An example of outdated signatures is when the Canadian Navy used to have every document sent from one officer to another up the chain of command as; "I am you humble and obedient servant" Lt I. Wanabee Not done anymore as the RCN realized that it was 17th Century terminology and time to move on...all unions should do the same...IMO. OOOOOOPS..Just saw a document from the JAZZ MEC and it was signed : In Solidarity, Air Canada Jazz MEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozerboy Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Sorry Kip, wasn't my intent to hi-jack your posting, just to show how self-centred and self-serving we are as pilots. Anyhow, enough about you...let's talk about my boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 It also gives me the creeps when unionists use "brother" and "sister" when they refer to each other. A little too cult-like for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest myround Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Much like WJ saying 'guests' geez give me a break. My guests don't pay, my passengers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 how self-centred and self-serving we are as pilots. Anyhow, enough about you...let's talk about my boat Now that's funny PS do you actually have one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsgas Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Where on earth do you get Eastern Pacific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemic Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I think Kip meant Eastern Provincial mic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gord Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Dozerboy, you mean you actually get your hands dirty sometimes? I reckon in most cases, if you've got to use a Johnson then someone screwed it too tight. Gord'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 I think Kip meant Eastern Provincial mic Argggghhhhh Mike.. ...It was not me who made the reference to Eastern Pacific...I was born out West and know the difference between PWA and EPA..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leading Edge Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Do any of you people really understand what Solidarity is, and what it can do? Are we so jaded and selfish that the greater good is a vague concept? Just a little refresher on solidarity, and what it meant to one leader of a nation... "(LEK vah-WEN-suh) A Polish labor leader and politician of the twentieth century, known for the success of Solidarity, an independent labor union that he headed. He was periodically put under arrest by the communist government. Walesa won the Nobel Prize for peace in 1983. From 1990 to 1995, he was president of Poland." http://www.bartleby.com/59/10/walesalech.html LE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 Do any of you people really understand what Solidarity is, and what it can do? Are we so jaded and selfish that the greater good is a vague concept? Just a little refresher on solidarity, and what it meant to one leader of a nation... "(LEK vah-WEN-suh) A Polish labor leader and politician of the twentieth century, known for the success of Solidarity, an independent labor union that he headed. LE I am very familiar with the man to which you refer and his struggles in Poland but consider this... We are not in Poland We are not battling the Communist mantra He was the leader of a union named "Solidarity" so why are we referring to a Polish Union in signature blocks ? I'm sure everyone knows the present dictionary meaning of "solidarity" but why does union correspondence keep hammering away with it?. Do they think that we Canadians are not aware of what happens if the union starts to fall apart...com'on now... you have to admit the phrase has out lived its usefulness sorta like the phrase that was uttered by every cashier back in the mid 70's, and still is in many areas," Have a Nice Day" (don't tell me what kind of day to have ) "Solidarity" is a handy catch phrase that we, Canadians, seemed to latch onto and now feel it should be used when addressing members of "our" Unions. How about "we Canadians" come up with something original? Personally I detest the use of "In Solidarity", "my brothers", "my sisters" when one starts to speak "unioneese". As someone else alluded to...sounds a bit too"cultish" for me. But as I said at the onset....just my opinion from out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ABC Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Just curious. If none of the unions you belonged to ever used the term "in solidarity", how would you know about it? It seems odd, though, to ask a question so you could answer it with an example from the Jazz pilot group, don't you think? (Unless you flew there??) Oh well, maybe one day when I retire and am no longer an "employee" I can get the same excitement from following an "employee" forum. Best wishes for a long, healthy, enjoyable retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 26, 2004 Author Share Posted May 26, 2004 Just curious. If none of the unions you belonged to ever used the term "in solidarity", how would you know about it? It seems odd, though, to ask a question so you could answer it with an example from the Jazz pilot group, don't you think? (Unless you flew there??) Oh well, maybe one day when I retire and am no longer an "employee" I can get the same excitement from following an "employee" forum. Best wishes for a long, healthy, enjoyable retirement. There are a ton of AC Union documents available to anyone who has the time to seek them out. Try the CUPE website for starters. Not sure how to take your sarcastic comment re "employee forum". Are you suggesting that only " actual working employees" should be able to voice an opinion or follow threads of interest about aviation matters on the Airline Employee Forum, and those that have done their time should butt out? Absence of occupation is not rest, A mind quite vacant is a mind distress'd William Cowper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ABC Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 No sarcasm intended. I think it is great to have retired people (aka "experienced") following the action. Especially IF they have the time (MANY OF US DON'T)! It's great! So, no, I don't think you should butt out. The AEF is my quick "what's going on" update. My comment was directed at the fact that it is your pet peeve when a letter is signed "in solidarity." Then you mention later that "Ooops, the Jazz MEC just signed "in solidarity"." I just wanted to know how you got access to Jazz MEC documents? And why you quoted them? Just seems odd to me that you formulated a theory ("Don't you think it is juvenile to sign a letter "in solidarilty", some throwback from WW2). Then, later you quoted a letter from the Jazz MEC to the pilot group IT represents being signed "in solidarity." But sincerely, no sarcasm intended. Best wishes on your health and remaining happy in your retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 26, 2004 Author Share Posted May 26, 2004 ABC Fair enough......How did I get the documents???? There is little security in this world when it comes to paperwork and documents sent around on the Internet. I do/did not work for JAZZ but I seem to get paper from all over the airline industry from friends who are still involved. I am grateful that they have faith in me and believe that I will not divulge confidential information and only use the info for my own personal updates/use. Re the JAZZ document..... I thought that no pilot group in Canada now used the phrase but as I was typing the comment I was sent a JAZZ document that used the phrase...thus my comment about JAZZ using the phrase. PS...I still don't like it. Have a nice week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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