Mitch Cronin Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Just supposing.... A 767 was directed to "runup area X" by a certain airport authority to carry out a fan ballance that necessitated high power runs for a time... and suppose that area X happened to be on a runway.... and suppose while conducting that runup sections of the runway were to happen to have been blasted loose in such a mannner as to cause great damage to said aircraft.... Who has to pay for that? Seems to me an airport ought to be fit to run aircraft engines on, in whatever manner those engines need to be run.... No?... And it frightens me to consider what could have happened if said hypothetical airplane was actually departing said hypothetical runway, and sustained said hypothetical damage during a take-off roll! Surely those responsible for the maintenance of that runway ought to be the ones to foot the repair bill.... No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lavoy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 If you were sleeping instead of posting on this forum you might not be tired during the night shift, hypothetically speaking of course. :]:]:] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I agree with you Mitch. Now, what's the rest of the story? It's a little too specific for me to believe its a hypothetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I guess that at "said" airport, they are using nothing but the best with the $4billion that they are spending. Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 06L06R Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 But what if the aircraft was not following the rules? IE pointing 40 degrees off centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lavoy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Perhaps the hypothetical airport authority could afford to fix the hypothetical airplane by putting a few less hypothetical expensive pieces of art in their hypothetical new terminal, hypothetically speaking of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R64L977 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 >But what if the aircraft was not following the >rules? IE pointing 40 degrees off centre. Man! Those lighted runway designator signs sure fly far after the back of an RB211 gets hold of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 [inputs new hypothetical 40 degree data into equation] Obviously if that were the case the "what if it was taking off?" question is moot, but since such high power runs are required by the relevant aircraft maintenance manuals to be done as near as possible into wind (with the importance of that increasing directly in proportion to the severity of the wind), who's rules would they be? The run needed to be done as it was. Any time I've requested permission to conduct such runs, I've asked for a position as near as possible into the wind. ...And have many times received approval for off-center alignment on the very same run-up area on the very same runway. In any case, it will be interesting to see who foots the bill for this one. You're correct J.O., this hypothetical aircraft now sports a right side horizontal stab and elevator that appears to have flown through a war zone with serious AA fire. Both are scrap I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lupin Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Mitch, Correct me if I am wrong.... If you follow the Aircraft Maintenance Manual for engine run ups,Doesn't it state you need to perform high power runs on a CONCRETE surface?Thats what the A320 manual states.... the high power runs for extended periods actually soften the asphalt and the debris gets trown at the said aircraft. Lupin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundeffect Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Mitch...are you by any chance alluding to the occurrence this am around 635? Cheers from a redeyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundeffect Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Mitch...are you by any chance alluding to the occurrence this am around 635? Cheers from a redeyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lupin Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 from the A320 manual a) When the engine operates, a large quantity of exhaust comes from the aft end of the engine. 1- The exhaust is hot and moves at high speed. _ 2- There are contamination and bad gases which were pulled into _ the engine by suction. 3- There are gases from the fuel that has burned or fuel which _ has not burned. At high power, the fan and turbine exhaust can blow loose dirt, stones, sand and other unwanted materials a distance of 300 ft. (91 m). 1- The airplane must be parked at an area where injury to persons _ or damage to equipment or other airplanes can be prevented. 2- Use a blast fence to deflect the thrust if the engines are _ operated without sufficient space to decrease the fan and turbine exhaust thrust to zero. c) High temperature exhaust can be found 300 ft. (91 m) from the exhaust nozzle with the correct wind conditions. CAUTION : DO NOT DO ENGINE GROUND RUNS UNLESS THE AIRCRAFT IS ON _______ A CONCRETE PAVEMENT. ENGINE EXHAUST GASES CAN CAUSE AN ASPHALT PAVEMENT TO MELT. MELTED ASPHALT CAN CAUSE IMPORTANT DAMAGE TO THE REAR STRUCTURE OF THE AIRCRAFT AND/OR TO THE ENGINE NACELLES. NOTE : Idle runs are allowed on asphalt provided it is in good ____ conditions. Lupin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lupin Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Mitch, I only have access to the A320 amm from home but I am pretty shure the 767 would have the same provisions. In a case like that the company actually has all the amo to hang the poor mechanic unless the mechanic was ordered to run the airplane by management and even in that case the person running actually is responsable for the aircraft. I just came off a run course in yyz and the instructor made shure to emphasize that case. Lupin Lupin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 Negative... I'm not sure how much I can say here, so I don't want to get too specific, just in case there'd be some reason for someone to object....? I don't mind saying though that I'm frequently astounded at what kinds of things we're finding ourselves unable to do, thanks to the local "airport authority"... We even need to call for permission for an idle run in front of our own hangar for petes sake! - That is, unless we're going to taxi away, then we don't need to ask...??? High power runs require us to get permission to run at a specific location, often this very same hypothetical location on a rather infrequently used runway... For some reason that I'm not aware, our blast fence is no longer suited for high power runs... though at one time it was?... Just seems a bit odd to me that at an airport we have to ask if we can run our airplanes, and there appears to be few places (perhaps even fewer now?) where we can throttle them up. Maybe we'll have to go flying next time we need to ballance a fan? Let's see, if we keep the flaps and the gear down, can we run at take-off power in the circuit for a couple minutes without exceeding gear and flap speeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 Lupin... I wish I'd known you were near by, I'd like to have shared a brew or two... The aircraft was on concrete... it's the angle of the dangle that apparently caused the difficulty... I wasn't there (thankfully!)I'm gathering it was the asphalt at the edge of the concrete that did the multiple missile imitation. I haven't seen the runway since, ...only the airplane, and it's a mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Avguy Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Mitch, just supposing that the runway was not blasted loose, but instead a service road that adjoins at a right angle. Would that not be indicative of an incorrect run up alignment? Perhaps you should go out and have a look...or talk to someone that possesses fact instead of heresay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 06L06R Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 A picture of the damage would be neat! From where I sit you can see patch work in a few spots. I heard that the A/C was pointing 110. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest woxof Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 I would think that common sense would tell you after reading that warning that it isn't O.K. to have the wheels on concrete and the jetblast on asphalt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.