Kip Powick Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I had a telephone call from an AC Captain this morning, a good friend, and we chatted about a mutual hobby and naturally during the conversation I asked about his flying, where he was flying to, how were the trips, and because of the turmoil the employees find themselves in …how was the attitude of the crews etc. My wings may be clipped but I still relish the friendships I have made and still have fond memories of how it used to be…perhaps some of you remember those days… where the customer came first. I believe he was embarrassed to admit to me that things were not as they should be in the AC customer service venue….here is his story…condensed for brevity, and I post it, not because of spite, but to demonstrate that perhaps those that frequent this forum, and work for AC will pass on the fact that some employees attitudes, with respect to their work ethic, is doing very little to enhance the AC image…in fact, they are alienating many customers and perhaps they should remember that without passengers…there is no airline…..ergo no job…. The flight arrived in YYZ on sked, from Florida, at 10:00pm and during the descent and approach the crew was in contact with Trans Border Ops. Landing and taxi to the gate were non-events. (1) No agent met the aircraft (2) Captain called Trans Border Ops numerous times…no reply (3) Captain called STOC…....STOC replied that Trans Border was not answering their phones (4) Captain called Dispatch and requested they call Trans Border Ops. Dispatch said there was no answer (5) Captain called the Airport police and asked for an escort for the passengers to get to Customs. Police said it was not their job. (6.) Captain used Cell phone to call VP OPS…no answer.(this is understandable… he could be out for the evening) (7) 42 minutes had now transpired and the Captain decided let everyone off the aircraft and pointed them towards Customs. He and the F/O found 3 wheelchairs and with the assistance of the F/As took the 3 wheelchair individuals down to Customs. (8) Captain submitted a Hawkeye report Result………….165 PO’d passengers many of whom stated that this was the last time they will fly on AC. Perhaps it is time to really think seriously, (for some folks...I'm not painting all the worker bees with the same brush), about an ATTITUDE adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tsguy Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Unfortunatley Kip, this is not an isolated event.. I've seen aircraft sitting on the ramp for 10+ minutes waiting for a ground crew to marshall them into a gate... I've heard from friends about times when customer service has been far from acceptable.. I think there are too many people who are taking out their own frustrations on the very people who are paying their wages... The customer... How can any company expect to survive if they cannot make the customer happy??? Sure things are not good at AC right now, but at least the people there still have jobs... How about the many in the industry right now who don't??? My Gawd, if you want your airline to survive, at least act like you care.. If not the paying Pax will go somewhere else... If the people still working at AC make it a pleasant place for customers, they will come back... If not, they won't be back and other airlines will be carrying them in the future.. IMHO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 tsguy: For once this instance of pax service had nothing to do with the ramp. We all know that the ramp has it's problems. This example was with the Gate agents/ meet agent plus the fact that with 30 people sitting in STOC no-one gave a damn. We have been saying that the managers just shuffle past a problem as fast as they can , but on the forum board it somehow gets back to the fact that it is the ramp guys fault. Not this time. Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tsguy Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Frosty, I'm not trying to point a finger at any way... I'm just saying what is happening these days... I think the problem is systemic and that's why I said what I did... Hopefully the AC employees will remember who pays their wages and get their collective act together before it's too late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 If after 45 minutes,and still no gate agent i seriously doubt that it was a gate agent not showing up.Come on now Kip,did you ever think that maybe management forgot to plan people or just did not have anyone to meet the flight.YYZ management have always been good at covering their butt's,and playing the blame game.Next time when the Captain or any Captain has the time have him/her walk immediately up to the STOC center and see the brains of the operation first hand.A management postion is always back filled with people from the floor,but those positions are rarely filled,you just go short.Two sides to every story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fax Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 "Hopefully the AC employees will remember who pays their wages" A great many of them do TS...that's the sad part. Since leaving AC, I've flown full-rev on numerous Air Canada flights and never been disapointed...always enjoy seeing the Maple Leaf at a gate. Just......my.......humble........opinion. It's too bad that when the company emerges from CCAA, as it will, all seniority couldn't be zeroed & those who have an ever growing chip on their shoulder (seniority arbitration...job description differences...etc...etc.) are shown the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fax Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 "Hopefully the AC employees will remember who pays their wages" A great many of them do TS...that's the sad part. Since leaving AC, I've flown full-rev on numerous Air Canada flights and never been disapointed...always enjoy seeing the Maple Leaf at a gate. It's too bad that when the company emerges from CCAA, as it will, all seniority couldn't be zeroed & those who have an ever growing chip on their shoulder (seniority arbitration...job description differences...etc...etc.) are shown the door. Just......my.......humble........opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tsguy Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Yup, it's too bad that so many of the miserable people are the ones with seniority who feel the world owes them.. If they could remember who makes it all possible, they could maybe continue... Without the support of the paying public, they are doomed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 I do believe the fine that can be imposed on AC for each individual leaving an "uncleared" aircraft at a Customs gate, (that is to say walking to CUSTOMS without supervision ie: Gate agent) is in the neighbourhood of $10,000.00. I think the Captain was pretty gutsy in telling the pax they could go. As well, the aircraft was in constant contact with Transborder Ops until they started their approach at which time they were required to be busy with the approach and landing. "Short staffed???" How about "work to rule" or just plain incompetent?? A lack of communications for 45 minutes is totally unacceptable...but hey...just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 "As well, the aircraft was in constant contact with Transborder Ops until they started their approach at which time they were required to be busy with the approach and landing. "Short staffed???" How about "work to rule" or just plain incompetent?? A lack of communications for 45 minutes is totally unacceptable...but hey...just my opinion. " Kip... I agree with your statement above 100%, a lack of communication for 45 minutes is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. But, you must accept the fact that those positions in the STOC center are all MANAGEMENT!!! As well as all the manpower planning positions. So where does the problem lie????? Cheers my friend... Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 First night in ages that I haven't seen the ops screen filled with red. Might be due to the fact that all the east coast flights have been cancelled and we suddenly have enough manpower to cover the rest. Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I have been in the position of not having sales meet flights and accompanied passengers to customs myself after only a few obvious minutes. Frankly, I can't understand why this Captain sent them down by themselves and am even more confused as to why it took him so long to make that decision. Passengers do need to be accompanied but sales have no special powers or clearance to accompany the first passenger to customs and they do not have the ability to ensure the directional compliance of the other 199. Just get the count from the I/C and head down. The only time when this may not be prudent if one was in one of the multi-use Rapidair / US gates at T2, but even then only if you were at the wrong end of things or couldn't confirm that there would be no crossover. The wheelchair passengers are a different story, unfortunately, but keeping everyone behind for a few doesn't seem to make much sense either. Passengers should be number one but, while a lot of balls were dropped, I feel that this Captain is just as complicit as anyone in not adhering to that tenet by delivering these passengers to customs himself in a timely fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 You young puppies are sooooooo smart,god must be Dash 8 drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fax Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Wrong on both counts LTFive. Neither young or a driver. Actually ex-ramp. Age has nothing to do with my statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tsguy Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 It's been about 10 years since I was Dash trash buddy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 So have I Dave. Had it happen on the LAX-YVR flight quite a few times. We were thin-staffed at times and I don't think the agents purposely ignored our flight. So I called Customs from the bridge, told them what we were going to do and got their authorization. Made the announcement and we all walked off the airplane to customs about 10 minutes after docking. Its about making it happen, not about waiting til someone else makes a decision. QED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raingear Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 A sad example of custumer service to be sure, but I wonder who, in this story, you are referring to as needing an "attitude adjustment" ? By the way, I read in the CAW's cic last week that they are laying off another 150 full time agents at YYZ in April, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear more of this type of situation unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raingear Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Pardon me, layoff numbers were more like 50 full time and 160 part time, with more to come later in the year. Still hard to imagine custome service being improved this summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 Say..................why have agents meet the plane at anytime,.... unless there are wheelchair pax?? Based on what you have both said, it is no big deal, you both jumped in to the rescue and again, based on what you have indicated, it took little effort, so why pay employees who have the task of meeting the aircraft to even bother being there. In a different vein, based on what you have said, your max inconvenience was 10 minutes, so it follows that no one really knows how long you two would have to wait for an agent. Which Hawkeye would pull more weight, a 10 minute delay due to no agent or a 42 minute delay no agent with absolutely no explanation (Bear in mind that the Captain did not intentionally hold the pax to make a point...he was busy and any of us that have run into a glitch know how the time flys) I do believe you both missed the point....in my mind there was no reasonable explanation put forth from Trans Border Ops. I also wouldn't be too quick to jump on the Captain...he did his job and perhaps it was a bit of a lengthy delay but he did what he thought was best without any assistance from anyone who works in the terminal. STOC/DISPATCH did not even suggest that they would call Customs or perhaps the Captain should call.The tone of both your postings tend to "deflect" instead of "accept" that people are not doing the job they are being paid to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CDB Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 These customers seemed to be taken care of pretty well... http://www.achorizons.ca/en/issues/2003/customer_kudos.htm I know you're not saying that all employees are like what you described, but just to balance the perspective there are plenty of heartwarming stories out there too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 It wasn't my intention to jump on this particular Captain, but I can see why my post could be taken that way. I woke up this morning thinking about my words as a matter of fact. Neither this Captain, nor you or I have no idea what was going on in STOC. I can't accept the implication that people would sit there with their arms folded and intentionally ignore a call on the radio and the telephone. And I don't know what was going on in the terminal for there to be no agent available (although this is common in the evening), except to say that there aren't enough agents, but what we've got is what the CAW committed to. (Frankly, it was stupid for the company to accept the CAW solution). Ultimately, while you take offense at the suggestion that there was a better way to handle this at the pointy end, in fact your last post was quite clear in your position that other employees for "not doing the job that they were being paid to do". There is a good possiblity that everyone at work that night may very well have been doing something that they were being paid to do... just not what this particular perspective percieved as most important at the time. The longer Hawkeye would pull more weight, but I don't see the point of exacerbating the situation just to get a better reaction from the top brass. Ultimately, if everyone put a hawkeye in every time, the quantity of hawkeyes would pull more weight than the minutes, IMO. Just looks better on the page. We definitely need more people on in the evenings, though. And we should provide more guidance to our crews as to what to do in this type of situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Kip; It wasn't that serious, Kip. I don't know why you're hyping it. Yes, the passengers had to wait and it was a problem but it got solved. Look Kip...I just tried to add to the conversation by showing that there are many caring employees who pick up the slack when something comes off the rails. We do it all the time as a matter of course. You've taken this to heights that had I known about, I'da just kept quiet. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 When you deal with millions of customers there is bound to be some deficiencies. Before everyone gets on their horse, one needs to know what the percentage of error is. 1%, 10% or ?????? In this regard the smaller carriers will always look better than the larger ones if you only look at the numbers of failure vs the percent of failur. IMO. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 When you deal with millions of customers there are bound to be some deficiencies. Before everyone gets on their horse, one needs to know the percentage of error. 1%, 10% or ?????? In this regard the smaller carriers will always look better than the larger ones if you only look at the number of failures vs the percent of failure. IMO. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 21, 2004 Author Share Posted February 21, 2004 We definitely need more people on in the evenings, though. And we should provide more guidance to our crews as to what to do in this type of situation. Thanks for the comments and if that is the case, (lack of manpower), I trust that someone with the power to initiate change will do so. Have a nice weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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