Genius and insanity

[Mitch Cronin]

I've often thought there was an extremely fine line between genius and insanity. Not from any studies that I'm aware of, just a collection of encounters with some incredible people... Some of them I'd have to call creative geniuses.

I've just learned (thanks to the Discovery Channel) that according to psychologists at Harvard University, there may well be a connection between creativity and madness....

Studies have found reduced levels of "latent inhibition" in people prone to psychosis...

..creative people also have an "attenuation of this filtering mechanism" that ....allows more ideas to flow.

One of the most creative people I've ever met, one Bill Lischman of "Father Goose" fame, (forgive me for this if you happen to be reading Bill, but I doubt you'd disagree that you're a nut!) who, along with coming up with the ideas for introducing migration routes to birds, has made some of the most incredible sculptures I've ever seen, out of rusted scraps of metal... He is, I have no doubt at all, a creative genius, and I think he'd also be considered an absolute madman in some circles.

I'm aware of other fine examples of creativity blending with insanity, often in music...

But an interesting comment from one of these Harvard psychologists came upon being asked, "is there anything you're aware of that we can do to reduce these latent inhibitions, so that we could improve our creativity?" The answer: Drugs and alcohol. ...and they're looking for less harmful ways....

Maybe the likes of Jimi Hendrix, Bob Marley Janis Joplin, et al, would never have been what they were to us without their vices, and their sacrifice was inevitable?

Wouldn't it be an interesting world if science could discover something that would allow for stimulation of that kind of creativity without the harm!?

[Guest Crow]

Very, very creative post. Certainly lacking inhibition. And indeed, one or two of your past posts have bordered on insanity.

Hmmmmm... I wonder...

Just kiddin' ya!

[Guest Crow]

Guess you're still sick, eh? :s

[Mitch Cronin]

Aye, that I am... oddly enough, I liked your last post.

[Guest neo]

Mitch,

I don't have a comment right now on your topic but, if you cast off your humble mantle, don't you think your post was rather well written?

If you wish, I retract everything I ever said about you being a Master Wordsmith.

neo

[Sky High]

What? And ruin his fun?

[Sky High]

I think the best demonstration of this theory is seeing how creative your wife is when it's 2 days before payday, she is cooking up some ground round for the 5th day in a row and she still comes up with a new recipe.

Of course the insanity kicks in when you mention that your getting sick of ground round.

Moral of the story.... never complain to the chef if you want to keep your eardrums and her sanity intact.

[Don Hudson]

Mitch;

Perhaps "genius" is a profound ability to percieve/create/connect patterns, and "madness" promotes/facilitates the process? Madness is, by definition, unconstrained by social convention and "newness" (I mean real newness, not just alternate ways of seeing/doing), is almost certainly greeted with derision, which madness cannot "see".

The more of life I experience, the less definitive I am able to be about what "insanity" really is.

Foucault wrote about madness, (Madness and Civilization) as did Szaz(sp?), a psychiatrist, who discussed "madness" in terms of social control. He also wrote a book called "Heresy"...fascinating.

Cheers,

Don

[Guest Starman]

"But I could have told you, Vincent; this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you..."

- Don Maclean, "Starry, starry night"

[Mitch Cronin]

If I cast off that "mantle", as you call it, I suspect like most people, I'd be left with ego. Then I'd probably hate for you to retract that comment.

What hit me when you said that (aside from the boost my ego felt) was the impression that you'd seen cold, calculated, intent to mislead, or hide meaning in my words. Which is something I usually don't want to do. In fact, often I find myself getting into trouble for saying exactly what I mean.

I'd like to think I can write well at times... If I could only find a way to identify the crap I write before I hit the enter button. :S

One thing that makes this such an interesting place is the variety of skills and styles of writing from so many people. And we're not generally trying to "write" so much as we're just putting our thoughts to print. Some are extremely skillful at doing so! You included. So, when compared to many who write here, I don't believe my ability to write shines that brightly.

Cheers,

Mitch

[Mitch Cronin]

If I cast off that "mantle", as you call it, I suspect like most people, I'd be left with ego. Then I'd probably hate for you to retract that comment.

What hit me when you said that (aside from the boost my ego felt) was the impression that you'd seen cold, calculated, intent to mislead, or hide meaning in my words. Which is something I usually don't want to do. In fact, often I find myself getting into trouble for saying exactly what I mean.

I'd like to think I can write well at times... If I could only find a way to identify the crap I write before I hit the enter button. :S

One thing that makes this such an interesting place is the variety of skills and styles of writing from so many people. And we're not generally trying to "write" so much as we're just putting our thoughts to print. Some are extremely skillful at doing so! You included. So, when compared to many who write here, I don't believe my ability to write shines that brightly.

Cheers,

Mitch

[Mitch Cronin]

"Perhaps "genius" is a profound ability to percieve/create/connect patterns, and "madness" promotes/facilitates the process?"

Maybe so... The lack of "latent inhibition", found in both highly creative people, and people prone to psychosis, being a "key" they've identified.

I suspect the genius -non psychotic mind maintains the moral perspective and retains, in spite of the "wows" from within, the ability to care for the difference between right and wrong, and the need for order in everyday life. Whereas the insane mind often gets tangled in the wonderment of their mind... revels in the chaos and lacks the order...?

Perhaps the creative genius is a would-be psychotic with more intelligence?

[Guest neo]

I don't know, Mitch. I consider myself a decent judge of a well-penned thought, and I've always thought you could write as well as anybody, at any time you wished. Of course, often you just tap out a few casual thoughts, as do we all. But when the mood comes over you, your posts show skill that any writer would envy.

Well-written thoughts aren't something that appear by chance; it takes conscious effort to make it happen. But there's different styles for different times, too. For instance, in most of his posts, V1 sounds barely articulate. But when he wants to he can express himself as well as anyone. Seen it myself, more than once. He's still a jerk, though.

Likewise yourself. Your style is usually 'folksy' and humorous. But when you want you can sound as authoritative as a university professor. A writer doesn't pull that off randomly or by chance: it takes art and skill. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with doing it: I do it myself. Sometimes I sound madcap, sometimes humorous, sometimes deadly serious. Sometimes you want to inform, sometimes to entertain, sometimes just to express yourself. Ya go with what's right for the job, no?

... I've forgotten the specific point I wanted to make...

Oh yes. Skilled writers are like anyone else: at times they use that skill to further their interests. What would be the point of having the skill, otherwise? It's totally kosher, especially when you acknowledge what you're doing. But if I'm in a heated discussion with someone who I know to be a skilled communicator, yet that person insists that what he's saying are just ramblings, an incongruence arises. I KNOW the individual to be a skilled writer/communicator. I KNOW the individual cares passionately about the issue. Nevertheless the individual declares that neither of those factors enter into what he or she is saying. That incongruence creates, for me anyway, an underlying problem in the communication.

Rightly or wrongly, that was my perception in the discussion we had last summer(general perception, not specifically like the example above). I seem to recall pointing out how your comments criticizing my alleged position, did not reflect what I had said at all. In answer to that, I seem to recall you insisting that it was simply innocent mis-communication on your part. I found that unlikely, given what I know about your abilities to communicate.

You're an excellent writer, Mitch, and you'll just have to live with the glory and responsibility!

Best,

neo

[Guest neo]

I don't know, Mitch. I consider myself a decent judge of a well-penned thought, and I've always thought you could write as well as anybody, at any time you wished. Of course, often you just tap out a few casual thoughts, as do we all. But when the mood comes over you, your posts show skill that any writer would envy.

Well-written thoughts aren't something that appear by chance; it takes conscious effort to make it happen. But there's different styles for different times, too. For instance, in most of his posts, V1 sounds barely articulate. But when he wants to he can express himself as well as anyone. Seen it myself, more than once. He's still a jerk, though.

Likewise yourself. Your style is usually 'folksy' and humorous. But when you want you can sound as authoritative as a university professor. A writer doesn't pull that off randomly or by chance: it takes art and skill. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with doing it: I do it myself. Sometimes I sound madcap, sometimes humorous, sometimes deadly serious. Sometimes you want to inform, sometimes to entertain, sometimes just to express yourself. Ya go with what's right for the job, no?

... I've forgotten the specific point I wanted to make...

Oh yes. Skilled writers are like anyone else: at times they use that skill to further their interests. What would be the point of having the skill, otherwise? It's totally kosher, especially when you acknowledge what you're doing. But if I'm in a heated discussion with someone who I know to be a skilled communicator, yet that person insists that what he's saying are just ramblings, an incongruence arises. I KNOW the individual to be a skilled writer/communicator. I KNOW the individual cares passionately about the issue. Nevertheless the individual declares that neither of those factors enter into what he or she is saying. That incongruence creates, for me anyway, an underlying problem in the communication.

Rightly or wrongly, that was my perception in the discussion we had last summer(general perception, not specifically like the example above). I seem to recall pointing out how your comments criticizing my alleged position, did not reflect what I had said at all. In answer to that, I seem to recall you insisting that it was simply innocent mis-communication on your part. I found that unlikely, given what I know about your abilities to communicate.

You're an excellent writer, Mitch, and you'll just have to live with the glory and responsibility!

Best,

neo

[Mitch Cronin]

Neo,

I think I'll keep that for my resume to be presented to myself when I apply for a job as a self employed writer. Thanks. Note to self: Richard sez I can write pretty good. Have at it!

I'm afraid I don't remember the details of the exchange well enough to explain, or excuse, my words, so I'll have to accept your assessment. I remember more clearly what I felt at the time, and I do recall feeling as though there had been some misunderstanding... And I remember being extremely surprised by your take on my comments. One of the things I have learned in my ever changing valuation of myself, is that I'm sometimes pretty thick... Could it be that was one glowing example of that? I don't know.

In any case, I sincerely regret any hurt I may have caused. I can take disagreement... I may argue, I may argue with emotion, I may argue with stupidity, I may vehemently oppose anothers point of view at times, but I don't want to hurt. Difference of opinion happens all the time, you and I agree on the good value in that, I believe. But through any difference of opinion we still share the very human weakness of feeling pain. I don't think I've ever wanted to cause any pain by my words... certainly not to you. I am sorry if I did.

Your "master wordsmith" commentary struck several nerves with me, coming when it did... Most of them had short circuited very shortly before then, as my father (now 85), who was a writer all of my life, and has been losing his memory for years, had decided I was his enemy and "severed relations" with me... His parting words, in writing, stung as much or more than any sting I've ever felt. Among other things, of my writing he said, I'd been "peddling [my] unbalanced opinions on others for years"... Just now I'm not sure why I'm sharing this, except I suppose, to explain some sensitivity I might have felt on the subject... Anyway, the old bugger was undoubtedly right, but I'll turn the blame back on him, since I reckon it was his job to help me balance those opinions, but since I was about 12, he was nowhere.

... back to the here and now.... I very much appreciate your compliments of my writing abilities. Coming from one who writes as well as you do (and I think you write extremely well! ), it feels like quite a compliment indeed! I'll try to keep the "humble mantle" so I don't let my head swell to the point of bursting, but I hope some day to have the confidence to have a go at writing some unbalanced opinion to peddle for cash.

Cheers mate,

Mitch

[Guest neo]

Mitch,

I'm honored that you would include those personal details in your reply. And I can certainly see why my comment had the effect on you that it did. Bad timing on my part, for sure.

Please understand, you don't owe me an apology for anything. We had a minor 'contretemps'; and given the subject how could emotions not run high?. Yet when I think of the things that people do say here, and have said to me directly, our exchange barely registered on the AEF Richter Scale. I doubt if I'd even have remembered it except that it did seem to affect you quite deeply. And given the situation with your Dad, it's obvious why. Once again, unfortunate timing on my part, as I unintentionally threw salt in that wound.

What is it about fathers anyway? There's far too many incapable of suppressing that natural father-son competitiveness, especially with the first born; and instead to appreciate, respect and honor their sons' achievements. Some sons will feel that they can NEVER be enough in their father's eyes. That's a very deep wound of its own.

When you say your father is losing his memory, is that as a result of Alzheimer's? My wife's mother suffers from it, and I must say I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I would rather die of any cancer you name rather than have my mental capacity slowly, and self-apparently, wane away. Given that you say your father wrote all of his life, it must be a bitter blow to him to watch his ability to write disappear. And your own skill with words, as much as he denigrates it, must be salt in HIS wound. But while I can understand his pain, inflicting pain on you in turn is... unnecessary and cruel.

Thanks again for your openness Mitch.

Best, neo

[Mitch Cronin]

Howdy Neo...

I don't think it's Alzheimer's. At least, I doubt it since it's been a very gradual process over the last 10 years or so... some other form of dementia I think, but I don't suppose I'll ever know for sure. His short term memory has left him completely now. 5 years ago, he was still able to joke about it. It amused him that he could read a book and enjoy it completely, only to find his own notes on the last page indicating when he'd read it last. Now, my brothers tell me, he can't even read.

Anyway, enough about him...

Good luck with your Wife's Mother... I know that can be gut wrenching. I'm with you, I'd much rather die than experience that, and without causing so much pain to loved ones as well. Often there's a spouse that goes through pure hell.

It's a funny thing... the brain and the mind are so little understood, even still. It seems that often when a breakthrough of one kind is reached, it puts other previously held "knowledge" in question...

...as Sherlock Holmes might say.... It is quite a three-pipe problem.

Cheers,

[Don Hudson]

Yeah!