Tally-ho Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Well, has anyone taken any pictures of the new aircraft ( up for bid ) that were on display in YUL?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lupin Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 visit airliners.net to see the embraer,crj,717 and 318. The airbus was a frontier airlines 318 http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=421110&WxsIERv=QWlyYnVzIEEzMTgtMTIx&WdsYXMg=RnJvbnRpZXI%3D&QtODMg=TW9udHJlYWwgLSBEb3J2YWwgSW50ZXJuYXRpb25hbCAoWVVMIC8gQ1lVTCk%3D&ERDLTkt=Q2FuYWRhIC0gUXVlYmVj&ktODMp=U2VwdGVtYmVyIDEwLCAyMDAz&BP=0&WNEb25u=Q29yZXkgS2FybHMgJiBTYWNoYSBDYW50b3I%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=TjgwMUZS&MgTUQtODMgKE=QSBmaXJzdCB0aW1lIHZpc2l0b3IgYXQgRG9ydmFsLiBBaXJidXMgaXMgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGdldCBTdGFyIEFsbGlhbmNlIHRvIHB1cmNoYXNlIHRoaWVyIG5ldyBhaXJjcmFmdC4gKFNwZWNpYWwgdGhhbmtzIHRvIEFsZG8gRmVybmFuZG8sIExlb24gWWV0bmlrb3YgYW5kIE1hdHRoZXcgWmVsbCk%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=ODM%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwMy0wOS0xMQ%3D%3D&static=yes the boeing 717 was an Air tran airplane http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?airlinesearch=AirTran&distinct_entry=true Tje crj's (3 of them) were star aliance airplanes except the 200 which was a United express airplane.http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=Canadair%20CL-600%20Regional%20Jet%20CRJ-100%2F200%2F700%2F900&distinct_entry=true The EMB-170 was embraer fin #5 experimental http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=Embraer%20170&distinct_entry=true Lupin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bcpilot Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Here is a pic of them all lined up together today in YUL http://www.airliners.net/open.file/420308/M/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally-ho Posted September 12, 2003 Author Share Posted September 12, 2003 thanks much!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 WARNING: THIS IS A JOKE ONLY... NOT FACT... well maybe sort of... I heard that they set up a boxing ring over in the corner.... ACPA's Goliath (undefeated)against ALPA's David (zero T.K.O.'s).... winner T.B.A. Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest YWG Flyer Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 http://www.winnipegflyer.com/special.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Given the obvious huge advantages of the continuity of the beast, can someone tell me why the 318 isn't a hands down winner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blizzard Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Given the obvious huge advantages of the continuity of the beast, can someone tell me why the 318 isn't a hands down winner? Probably for all the same reasons that JetBlue didn't buy 318's. The biggest reason is probably cost. In this era of few and far between airplane orders, it comes down to who is willing to make the best deal (ie: sell their soul to keep the planes being manufactured). That said, the 318 is overpowered for the airframe size. Commonality is good, but at what cost? Aside from the purchase and maintenance costs, you have to be able to afford to fly the things. From what I hear, the Embraer and the Boeing top out in the in-air efficiency. No doubt the Airbus and the CRJ family would be the best fit for fleet commonality (although there are a lot of DC-9 experienced people, that would pick up the 717 pretty quick). Passengers hate the CRJ series for anything longer than a 1hour flight (their necks get sore from tilting to the side) The cabins on the other 3 are all top notch. The range on the 717 and CRJ isn't as good as the Embraer and 318. Lots of things to consider - don't assume that this is a slam dunk for any of the competitors. AC might be outvoted by other Star Alliance members anyway...It may not matter what works best for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blizzard Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Given the obvious huge advantages of the continuity of the beast, can someone tell me why the 318 isn't a hands down winner? Probably for all the same reasons that JetBlue didn't buy 318's. The biggest reason is probably cost. In this era of few and far between airplane orders, it comes down to who is willing to make the best deal (ie: sell their soul to keep the planes being manufactured). That said, the 318 is overpowered for the airframe size. Commonality is good, but at what cost? Aside from the purchase and maintenance costs, you have to be able to afford to fly the things. From what I hear, the Embraer and the Boeing top out in the in-air efficiency. No doubt the Airbus and the CRJ family would be the best fit for fleet commonality (although there are a lot of DC-9 experienced people, that would pick up the 717 pretty quick). Passengers hate the CRJ series for anything longer than a 1hour flight (their necks get sore from tilting to the side) The cabins on the other 3 are all top notch. The range on the 717 and CRJ isn't as good as the Embraer and 318. Lots of things to consider - don't assume that this is a slam dunk for any of the competitors. AC might be outvoted by other Star Alliance members anyway...It may not matter what works best for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lupin Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 good day Mitch From talking to the line manager in yul,he said that prices are as follows (approx) emb 170 - 27 million Crj 700 - just under 30 717 - mid 30s a318 - 45 million the 318 on display had the cfm engines,you get the option of using pw-6000 which should be more economical .With that big of a fuselage your savings would be comming from common training but i doubt that the airplane is competitive in direct operating cost(plus with the 318 they would probably have to let ACPA pilots operate it making it even more expensive) anybody else have any good arguments?? Lupin p.s. Mitch,you should see this emb 170!!!Its like a baby 737,same type of gear and door arangement.At first glance it looks like it would be much more fun to work on then the Crj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lupin Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 anybody think they would split the order like us-air did?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nigol Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 If us guys (ALPA/ACPA) keep this up the only ones that will be flying over 50 seats are Westjet, Canjet, and Smilely Jet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I made a call to a friend at AC Center and he confirmed what I expected...pricing and financing at Airbus are not as attractive as they used to be....In fact Embraer now has some new fans in the company.....the Canadian government's recent bias against AC regarding Bombardier financing, might become a factor..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cabo Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lupin Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 lol a little bit sensitive aren't we??? I fix'em for air canada Hack.....It would be better for my future employment if you guys flew them but I'm shure AC will give them to the lowest bidder.Its common sense isn't it?? Lupin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.70 mach Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 My Comments: At first glance walking up to the CRJ 900 I was impressed with the overall size until I got inside. Seems a little bigger with the convenience of 2 lavs and business class as well, but could never see doing 3 hour trips all the time with a happy load of passengers. People will grow to hate the aircraft the same way passengers didn't like the F-28. Seen the top brass from AC and Jazz checking things out as well. Calvin did mention to one of the guys I knew (caution second hand info). The 318 is too expensive but favour it over the B-717 just for the common type rating but would then have to supplement it with an order of smaller jets. CRJ 900 probably not in books. Embraer 170 specs looks interesting and the attraction of a wider cabin with common type rating for the larger 190/195 does fit in. CRJ-700 might happen but only if support from Star Alliance comes into play. His only comment on who is going to fly what came down to "you know if we gave all the work to the less expensive workers the cost of layoffs and re-training will offset any benefit of lower wages for years to come." (again that was second hand info) The person that I was chatting with, I have known for several years and know him to be a straight shooter kind of a guy and will not play up the mainline knowing that I am a Jazz worker. Cheers . 70 mach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest easyjazz Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Who is the greater fool HACK!! Seems your misguided reality is leading your wishfull thinking. Jazz will operate these aircraft at the lowest seat mile costs period. Don't care to elaborate anymore than that, but let's just say for now you are in for a huge surprize:) Seems certain creditors already have a plan in mind...ACPA is relegated to long haul not domestic routs. It's about time we all do a reality check on operating costs, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussD Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Well here's my prediction. Two types to fill 70 to 110 seat niche. 318 choice for larger type CRJ 700 or 704 for smaller type 318 goes to acpa CRJ's go to Jazz Jazz spun off to live happily ever after. AC staggers along under the burden of domestic/transborder cost structure way out of sync with competition. Another CCAA event a sure thing prior to 2010 cause they didn't do it right this time. Take that to the bank,,,, or put it in yur pipe and smoke it. RDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.70 mach Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Here's my prediction: Air Canada orders 40 Embraer 170/175 aircraft in the 70-78 seat range and 40 190/195 in the 96-108 seat range for a total of 80. ACPA will operate these without a doubt. Then places an order for 20 CRJ 200's to be placed at JAZZ and follows through with the transfer of the mainline 25 CRJ 100's for a grand total of 55. That's my best guess. I see in DEC someone's CRJ's will be operating to 3 new destinations Daytona Beach/ Fort Myers/ West Palm Beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest easyjazz Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Without a doubt? OR My best guess? Which is it? My informed opinion...Jazz end quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I don't really care anymore who flys what, but I was under the impression that the decision was out of ACs hands and would be made by Justice Farley, so does CR actually have a say in this??? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.70 mach Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 My best guess. Lets hear yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 FUN????? FUN????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Thought you were out of aviation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 A baby 737?? Man, I think the 737 is too small already. It sure as heck is too low to the ground! Not sure I could deal with a miniature version. But I'll probably never get to play with such animals anyway. On another note... I was forced to watch as hordes of folks turned down the 340 course starting this monday. I'd have killed for that course (well, not quite), and I did all I could to get on, but for some reason that just wasn't in the cards... Too many licences they said. Meanwhile, they put a few avionics guys on with as many and more than me.... sigh... perhaps that's the price I have to pay for being a mouthpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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