Kip Powick Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I see that the two National News Companies, CBC and CTV, gave priority news coverage to the long lines of PO’d customers at various AC counters across Canada. Now the question has to be asked…if AC is trying to cut costs by laying off agents, does it not appear self defeating to “down size” that segment of the staff, at this time of the year … at the risk of losing “more and more ” customers. While AC might be trying to appease those that are in control of the CCA, it doesn’t seem to make much sense to lay off the “front line” staff at the height of the summer tourist season. Of course, the AC PR rep, Ms Laura Cooke was on camera, all smiles with lots of “double-speak” about a transition to a more lean machine but I still wonder….is it not true that you can only put 5 one pound apples in a 5 lb bag…unless, of course, you turn apples into apple sauce…which AC is doing, much to the probable delight of the other orchard owners. ??? Just my opinion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I liked the CBC clip that had that crazy woman screaming at everyone. That has to be the image Air Canada wants presented to the world. Are they going to give Air Canada employees clubs to beat off passangers with like Aeroflot did? I am going to be flying YYZ-YOW and YYZ-YYC in the next few weeks, that should be lots of fun. Paying to get screamed at, only Canadians would put up with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CabinDweller Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Global also carried the story, can’t remember if it was on the regional section though, I switch around. They showed a lady from AC barking (literally shouting) instructions at the several hundred people in line. All while trying to block the cameras with her hand while they were filming. Not a pretty sight. Not necessarily clever, but I always try to empathize with front line staff (in my job I basically are one) whether it be TAs or FAs looking after more than their share of asses by asking (and if you ever here this - you’ll know it’s me ) "do you get danger pay for this"? I can tell you that I know one person (at least) that routinely calls AC(only) for all her flights. These recent airings will make such people think twice and really consider what other options are available. DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 If I've understood Dagger, GDR, and others correctly, the airline is currently being controlled by the creditors... Maybe we've all just witnessed why it is that said creditors aren't normally in the business of running an airline? Whoever is in charge is making some wolloping huge errors. This one blows up instantly, others are coming to a slower boil.... almost makes me wonder if failure isn't someone's intent. Good to see you around again Kip. Sorry we missed each other on the water Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toron1 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 ZIP cancelled on me today in Abbotsford (trying to get home from the airshow) About 100 or so people were also stiffed. I threw my money out of the window, <$100, as a good learning experience. I rushed over to WestJet, guess what, NO SEATS!!! I'm on WestJet tomorrow and I will never look back! I feel for that woman! Toron1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cabo Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Is it the creditors making these decisions? Is it the company cutting just to show it is cutting, possibly in the wrong places? Is it anything to do with working to rule? So many questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Bergen Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Had some first hand experience today trying to get out of YVR. It took approximately one hour to get through the line to check in. I must commend the people at the check in, lines agents and even at the gate agents who kept their cool and made the most of the few resources available. Having said all that, it seems in these situations that managing workforces and peaks is more of an art than a science. Do you hire enough people for the peaks and be overstaffed for the other times or do you face what the situation is now? Would unionized staff be willing to take overtime while some are on furlough? The balance point has to be out there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Just out of curiousity, What happens if someone flying on aeroplan points misses a flight because of all this chaos? Would they be consitered no-shows and f--ked or would Air Canada put them on another flight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Hi Patrick, I think it's usual to try to staff for a median level of manpower requirements, take a bit of a hit when things are slow, and ask for overtime when things are busy. At least, that makes sense to me. But now.... At AC... Things that make sense are all out the window... Excessive layoffs at a stupid time for the CAW folk, and in maintenance, it's "scheduled mandatory overtime". ... let's them lay off all but the minimum requirement and force overtime to do the work. I had the head of AC Tech Ops tell me (and he wanted this statement made public!) that forcing people to work overtime would -- contrary to my belief that it was an interference and an unwelcome hardship to many -- ..."in fact,allow us to provide greater predictability of overtime for our employees and thereby hopefully contribute to their ability to coordinate their own personal lives" How could any intelligent man even think that, let alone say it and actually expect anyone not to see the absurdity in that line of thought? Anyway... sense seems fairly uncommon these days. But then I must admit my vantage point is somewhat clouded. Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1V2Vgo Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 One Question....Without the sympathy bookoff factor, is the front line adequately staffed? Not stirring the pot here, but I think it is a valid question. This debacle is the last thing we need right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Hi Patrick, I think it's usual to try to staff for a median level of manpower requirements, take a bit of a hit when things are slow, and ask for overtime when things are busy. At least, that makes sense to me. But now.... At AC... Things that make sense are all out the window... Excessive layoffs at a stupid time for the CAW folk, and in maintenance, it's "scheduled mandatory overtime". ... let's them lay off all but the minimum requirement and force overtime to do the work. I had the head of AC Tech Ops tell me (and he wanted this statement made public!) that forcing people to work overtime would -- contrary to my belief that it was an interference and an unwelcome hardship to many -- ..."in fact,allow us to provide greater predictability of overtime for our employees and thereby hopefully contribute to their ability to coordinate their own personal lives" How could any intelligent man even think that, let alone say it and actually expect anyone not to see the absurdity in that line of thought? Anyway... sense seems fairly uncommon these days. But then I must admit my vantage point is somewhat clouded. Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ABC Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Good post, Kip. But I have to side against you on this one, The company, AC, is $15 billion in debt. Fifteen thousand million dollars in debt! And just added another 500 million dollars of debt last week. So let's get out the calculator. Let's see, $15,000 million times 5% is just over $2,000,000 of added debt per day in interest. So AC just has to have revenue increase expenses by $2mil a day to break even. The flights are full, a lot of baggage and people to move, AC must be making money. Yes, it appears front line staff are employing job action. But you have to remember, the company they work for is in debt fifteen thousand million dollars and has to make two million dollars profit per day just to break even. A bit risky considering that other cost effective airlines such as Westjet, Jazz and Jetsgo are waiting in the sidelines. Not to mention Skyservice, Canjet and Transat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lupin Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Funny that the person telling you this information works 5-2(monday to friday), 8:00am-5:00pm with weekends off.What does he know about coordinating a personal life?? I think I would like a pint of what he's drinking!! Cheers!! Lupin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 (((((A bit risky considering that other cost effective airlines such as Westjet, Jazz and Jetsgo are waiting in the sidelines. Not to mention Skyservice, Canjet and Transat.))))) That pretty much sums it up however, excluding job action by the agent group in an attempt to show AC that they need some of their peers back to work, that would only leave one thing ….wages. I don’t know how the discount folks compare with AC agents but I would think that AC wages for agents might be better. How does one become cost effective when wages may be high (compared to the industry standard in Canada) and still have enough employees to do a reasonable job???? There appears to be only two solutions…lower the wages…or…hire temporary staff for the high volume season.(summer-Christmas). As an aside, I find it hard to believe that the agents would be taking “job action” as I am sure they realize that the ball game is not over yet and if the spectators get PO’d enough and don’t show up, the team may “fold”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dizzy Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 It's not just the customers. We waited half an hour for a lead to park us yesterday at T1. Many thanks to the gentleman who didn't have to park us - but headed off the near riot that was brewing behind me. Many of those people take the flight to connect. Instead of getting where they need to be, they spent their day at Pearson. I think next time they'll just drive and take their chances with traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sopwith Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 The public perception is that AC management is solely to blame for the delays and that they are shooting themselves in the foot by scheduling too few ppl on the ramp and at the check-in counters. Does it really seem likely that Air Canada would schedule only two ppl for check-in in Halifax or Toronto during the busy season or is it more likely that there some unhappy employees who are booking off "sick" knowing they won't be replaced and maybe the resulting pain will be noticed by the public and upper management. I was in Halifax last week and there was only one ground crew for all the Jazz flights. (That resulted in a half hour taxi in). I guarantee you that there were more than three guys scheduled to work that day. As a result the public is furious at AC managemenet but nobody even sees the "sick" employees. AC still has a long way to come but the blame must be shared by all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JakeYYZ Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Sopwith : “I guarantee you that there were more than three guys scheduled to work that day.” Oh you do. Where do you get your information? I think it’s more a matter of your not willing to believe that there is some special-kinda-stupid scheduling installed. I work YYZ and I can tell you it’s not ‘sick-outs’. It’s scheduling and manpower. I can tell you if the corp doesn’t do something to address the situation, there will be job action and it won’t take the form of ‘sick-outs’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1V2Vgo Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 BINGO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Thats AC's way of thinking.The middle managers are all still there,but to scared/embarrased to show there face.Soooo typical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1V2Vgo Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Hello Jake from YYZ, I think your perspective is skewed. I do not know if you are ramp, or CSA, but you cannot tell me that total CSA staffing levels of 2, I say again, 2 agents at one time in Terminal two @ YYZ last week was preplanned. Give me a break. Nobody is that stupid. Oh, and when one agent goes for coffee, well, you do the math...the domestic check in line was unstaffed. 300 people in line, not moving. Two supervisors on duty though, facilitating late check in folks to do an end run to the only agent at the Express kiosk. Now both lines do not move. This is a very sad day, and someone should be held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JakeYYZ Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Hello to you V1V2Vgo, Yes. I am a CSSA in YYZ. “You cannot tell me that total CSA staffing levels of 2, I say again, 2 agents at one time in Terminal two @ YYZ last week was preplanned. Give me a break.” No. I guess you’ll believe only what you would like to believe. It would be easier for you suppose that it’s chaos created by the CAW group. Really, it’s more likely that the ‘collective’ decided to schedule 2 persons at check-in. Or, we organized ourselves to be in other work locations other than check-in. Yeah. You’re right. It would be hard to believe that a dunder head manpower manager would schedule 2 check-in agents. Yeah. That’s incredible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1V2Vgo Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Hey Jake, Seriously, I do not know what to believe. Clearly, from your evasive, indirect answer, you are not gonna fess up. I stand by my original observation, and at the very least, it was not an "all hands on deck" attitude, that day. I think we can agree on that.... Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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