Guest Mike Sowsun Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Is it just me or am I missing something? What is there for the Jazz pilots to celebrate? I can't see how it is possible to immediately transfer the AC RJ's to JAZZ without incurring huge training costs for both AC and JAZZ. Increased training costs just aren't possible right now. The Press release I saw said the following: "It is Jazz's intention to introduce between 25 to 30 new regional jet aircraft in the 70-seat range, subject to the successful completion of the restructuring and obtaining competitive proposals from aircraft manufacturers." I read that paragraph as saying they would like to introduce new Regional Jets sometime in the future if ACPA lets them and if Jazz can afford them. "These agreements also provide the necessary flexibility we require going forward," added Randell. "This includes no guarantees related to fleet size or job security, which in today's competitive environment, is an essential ingredient for a successful airline." I read that paragraph as saying Jazz will have total freedom to get rid of the aircraft and layoff at short notice as needed. Maybe someone can fill in the details as to what the JAZZ Agreement actually says. Mike Sowsun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CJRT Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Hi Mike, I think it's been a long time for Jazz pilots since a light at the end of the tunnel was seen. We realize there is a long way to go and that the path ahead is still bumpy. But at least there's hope. We can either choose to dwell on the losses or we can celebrate the positives. Right now that positive is the relief from the stresses of the past year. For a moment we will smile and wish the best for all groups, including ACPA. Take care !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Sowsun Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 It would be nice to see us all together as one group if we can work it out. The American and American Eagle system that sounded promising but I can't recall the details.. You have to wonder whether or not the Company actually prefers having two groups fighting each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Sowsun Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 CCAA doesn't suspend all labour law. You can't layoff out of seniority and you can't pick and chose what parts of the contract you want to honour. It must be negotiated as I see it. I guess we'll find out soon enough what the future will bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Sowsun Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 CCAA doesn't suspend all labour law. You can't layoff out of seniority and you can't pick and chose what parts of the contract you want to honour. It must be negotiated as I see it. I guess we'll find out soon enough what the future will bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Sowsun Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 CCAA doesn't suspend all labour law. You can't layoff out of seniority and you can't pick and choose what parts of the contract you want to honour. It must be negotiated as I see it. I guess we'll find out soon enough what the future will bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest low torque Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Actually I think that you're glasses are dirty if you think that ACPA is in any position to negotiate at this point. From what I understand, you folks have until 5 pm today to accept what AC is offering or I think the next step for you may be even more painful than what is on the table right now. My opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest unsure Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Actually the good JUDGE has postponed the date to the 29th......... new atis mssg coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest q650 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 These dealines keep moving - what a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest givemeabreak Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 You would eat your young Sowsun. How's the overtime bank these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doc Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Yup...guess you'll sing the same tune when the Dashs move to Tier 3!!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DashTrash Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Management of ACJ has indicated they intend to continue to operate a large turboprop fleet. Sorry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DashTrash Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 It's not what I say, it's what Joe Randell said at the news conference on Saturday. You and Doc should call back your "deepthroat" source, or recheck your decoder ring if you have "secret" info otherwise.......Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doc Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 No secret info. I just find it intriguing to see JAZZ pilots spit the vitrol at ACPA that they had fought for so many years. The attitude that mainline pilots can now go screw themselves is laughable. It will also be intersting to watch what you do when or if the 'plan' changes and Jazz ends up with less than what they think they were just handed. I wouldn't count your chickens just yet since your arrogance will come back to bite you in the arse. Tier 3 will, almost certainly, expand in Air Canada's new world and Jazz may feel the pinch as mainline has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickle Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Is this supposed agreement between Joe and ALPA actually signed or is it an agreement in principle that must still have the blessing of AC Inc. I have my doubts that Joe has the authority to deliver a contract without mothercorp's blessing and quite honestly I don't see them giving that until they have come to terms with ACPA. Does Judge Winkler/Farley not have the final say on whether the contracts are good enough??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terminated Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I'm not totally sure about this, but..... I believe for that whole agreement to get settled, and have the news conference and all, I am almost certain it had already gone through AC corp as well as the bankruptcy trustee (Ernst & Young). This wasn't Joe Randell just deciding to go wild on his own. As well, in the announcement, it was stated that a process had been agreed upon with the bankruptcy trustee as to a process whereby ALPA could put forth a proposal to fly the 100-110 seat aircraft the company wants. That certainly seems to indicate that the trustee and Judge Winkler were involved and satisfied with this agreement. But, everything could change tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Do you honestly believe that the half dozen people who post here are representative of the larger group of Jazz pilots? That is if they even are Jazz pilots to begin with. seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CleardecksforACTION! Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Dude; I think that the 'vitriol' that "AC mainline can now go screw themselves" is mostly in your head. I say mostly because there's always a couple of 'bad apples' who are intent on being 'emphatic disturbers' ( on both sides), for whatever reason... I'm up to speed on this board and you are baggin' on the JAZZ gang way over the top! As for what GURK was saying; JAZZ IS a wholly owned subsidiary (for now), and we don't have our own shares in circulation. We are not ABLE to buy our own equipment and mainline owns all we currently have. It's what it is and GURK is 100% correct. As of now, I believe the tier III's are indepedently owned, so your comparison isn't quite on the mark, but then again, I get the distinct impression that you already know that and you are stirring... Cheerio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doc Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Note that I said see Jazz pilots....I did not say ALL Jazz pilots..or most. It is quite obvious that DashTrash is a Jazz pilot and I retorted to his post. As for wholly owned---it is all irrelavent as AC will deal the flying to the operator that can bring it the best return. For some flying that will be mainline, for other flying Jazz and for still other flying Tier 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PortTack Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Our NEW contract is signed...do you really think Jazz MEC gave away the farm? What they did is promote the present contract from day 1 to the right people. We'll now have the present contract with livable changes. The Jazz MEC did fail at one thing, communicating with ACPA reps, but how can they be faulted if the phone calls were never returned? Now we face the whipsawing (compete for the lowest numbers on bigger aircraft) that the Jazz MEC really wanted to avoid. If the two sides can't communicate at this stage, they never will. It's too bad because if AC lays off, there may be a lot of jobs open at Jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest McChicken Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Everyone is talking about 100-110 seat a/c that AC apparently wants Jazz to fly. two questions - what's the evidence that AC wants Jazz to have this size of a/c? and what a/c currently in production fits that bill besides the new embraer ERJ's? (and i can't see AC getting those with bombardier's shares so low) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest McChicken Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Everyone is talking about 100-110 seat a/c that AC apparently wants Jazz to fly. two questions - what's the evidence that AC wants Jazz to have this size of a/c? and what a/c currently in production fits that bill besides the new embraer ERJ's? (and i can't see AC getting those with bombardier's shares so low) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 A-318 or B-717 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 How about the A318, and B717, both of which are being looked at by Star Alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terminated Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I wouldn't say that AC wants Jazz to have those aircraft. But in the press conference and release on saturday, it was revealed that a process had been agreed to with the bankruptcy monitor (Ernst & Young) whereby the flying would be awarded to either entity of Air Canada based on a bid or proposal by each group (ACPA/ALPA). So based on that, it seems official that the 100-110 seat flying is 'up for grabs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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